The Pyramid of Success: Achieving Balance as an Entrepreneur, CEO and Mom | Ep 28

Bonnie Watson  
We were talking about what are healthy habits? And how do you drive success, you know, all the things that you experienced as like a high functioning executive and being a mom and a wife, you know, over the last 10 years of me being in therapy, I've kind of mentally mapped this pyramid, you know, the bottom of your pyramid has to be very, very stable, right?

Caleb Roth  
Welcome to the Stacking Habits podcast with your hosts, David, Matthew and Caleb, our mission each week is to dig into the habits, rituals and routines of guests who are living life to the fullest. But remember, knowledge without action is worthless. So be sure to take what you hear, put it into practice, turn these words into words, in your own life. Without further ado, let's dive in.

Matthew Osborn  
Welcome back to the Stacking Habits podcast. Today, we're joined by Bonnie Watson. Bonnie is currently the CEO of Energize Colorado, which helps lending for small businesses. But before she did that, she got into the co working space with all spaces. And I'm curious to know a little bit more about how you got into the co working space. I remember back probably around 2019 2020, I was very interested in that model. I looked into it a lot. And it couldn't seem to make sense to me from a financial standpoint of how much investment would there be with how much interest there would be in the model? And it seemed like there's a lot of issues with current models going around with co working spaces. So what caused you to get into that? How were you able to be successful in an extremely competitive space? That billion dollar businesses ended up having a lot of issues with, as I'm sure you're well aware of? How did you guys kind of manage that?

Bonnie Watson  
Yeah, so a little bit of context into it. So my husband is a co working expert, he was a co founder in a software company called proximity, which helps power co working spaces globally. And so we lived in Telluride right before the pandemic moved up there in 2018, worked out of their co working space on Main Street. And obviously, through the evolution of the pandemic, they lost space, and we were working out of our kitchen, you know, counter essentially. And that just that wasn't sustainable for us. And so we started to kind of look around and you know, really, it was like a necessity for a solution personally, is what kind of sparked this. And we found a space in Telluride and open that space. And one of the big problems with the co working model is that it's not financially sustainable, and oftentimes has to be subsidized by you know, government money or working with nonprofits are, you know, partnering with a library. And partly that is the overhead, right, you have space managers in the space, and it just a lot of co working spaces fail. And you add the fact that like, we were in rural Colorado, which you take all the the barriers to entry that small businesses face in rural Colorado and just add it to that already complicated model. And so we said, you know, we want to solve a problem, we open the space, Brian and I were there. But we knew that rule co working is really important for connectivity of entrepreneurs, and now remote workers post pandemic, right, like we had a huge influx of remote workers. And we said, we can't sustain it, how it typically was in the traditional model. So what if we tried automation because people post pandemic we're very, and in the pandemic became very comfortable with automation, whether you were ordering food, or whatever you were doing, people became comfortable with the idea. And so we tried it. And people really liked it, you know, and they could just quickly check it online, we'd send an onboarding email that would give them all you know, space access. And they had, you know, the door open essentially, if the co working space in these communities across rural Colorado. And so we ended up acquiring spaces from proximity who, you know, had spaces in Ridgeway and Montrose and Grand Junction, we added them to the network and added a few more and tied them together, you know, and we had an automated model that space members could essentially travel through from Grand Junction to Telluride. And that was also a huge value add for people. But really, it came out of solving our problem. But also like, when you look at the rural ecosystem of Colorado, we wanted to support the role ecosystem of Colorado and co working is really, really pivotal to that model. Because there aren't a lot of resources in rural Colorado. Did

Matthew Osborn  
you see a lot of the main co working space at the same time trying go towards automation as well? Or is that not really something their model was compatible with the time I'm curious, if I was doing that seems to be my first thought too, would be, hey, let's take away a lot of these overhead expenses. Did they do that? Or did they kind of stick with their original model and see if that worked for them?

Bonnie Watson  
My observation is, especially in urban areas, they kept that model that traditional model with the space manager, because they have you know, the human capital, they have the capital to support that. But in rule that was a big missing piece, like finding a skill set to you know, have an automated model or be a space manager was something that we just didn't really have. And so I think I always I hate pulling out the like urban rule card, but like there was a definite difference in how people approached it. And we got a lot of interest in it. You know, we were my husband was on all sorts of coworking podcasts and people were like, how are you doing that? And it was from all walks of coworking And realizing the value of an automated system?

Matthew Osborn  
Did you? Do you guys still work out of a co working space? Or do you work out of home now? So

Bonnie Watson  
we work? Well, my husband works out of a co working space called Peak co working in Evergreen and I work out of my home office in Evergreen.

Matthew Osborn  
Gotcha. That's really cool. I love the co working model as a whole, because I've been an entrepreneur self employed for I think, going on, little over 10 No, not 10 years, I forget how long now eight years, something like that. It's been a little while, but I've been working from home. And I've always seen that there's, at least in my opinion, other people have different experiences by opinion, I tend to be a little more productive when I somehow get out of the house to work, whether it be go to the office, or even just be not necessarily around a community just going somewhere outside of the house where my mind goes, Hey, I'm not at home anymore. This is work time. Now I'm back home, this is home time. And the lines definitely get blurred when you're at home, especially when there's kids coming in and all the normal distractions and stuff like that. And so I love co working for that. That reason. I live out in not even rural Phoenix, but it's southeast valley of Phoenix. And even though it's an extremely populated area, there's very few co working spaces I can get to without having to drive back into town like 45 minutes. And so we've lived out in a rule area, I guess it's been deemed by enough co working spaces to not have enough demand to have something on here. And so I love them all you're talking about of having something fully automated, because it would be awesome to have something out here where people know all the people work from home around me could go to without having to drive into Phoenix or one of the main areas. And I'm sure the reason they're doing that is because they don't have your model adopted where they can manage that overhead by doing things remote. And so that's, that's really cool. You guys were able to build that. How did that work from a standpoint of working together with your husband working with a spouse? I know working and managing a business by itself can be a little overwhelming and then adding a spouse on top of that, and that whole relationship dynamic? What were your guys's kind of keys to building that business successfully together? Yeah,

Bonnie Watson  
it's a great question. Um, going into business with your spouse is a frankly, pretty ballsy move. And it really tests your relationship. And it either I think you talked to a lot of couples who are entrepreneurs, like, you either come out of that experience and sell your business and you say, we're gonna do that again. Or like, we're never touching that again, right? Like, you know, we, we've seen couples get divorced because of that. And fortunately for us, like when we went into it, we have a really good relationship, fortunately. But we set some really strict boundaries around what that looked like, right? Because not only were we living together in the same house during a pandemic, and Telluride like we had no other interaction with people. And then we started a business together, you're just constantly with your spouse, and we, which is not a bad thing. But we set some boundaries. And we basically said, like, if this if this is like a, I always think about a volleyball court, right? Like, we're gonna draw a distinct line in the sand. And this is our personal life. And when we step over that line, this is our professional life. And those two things do not blend, right. We don't bring work home, and we don't take home to work essentially, right. And you kind of have to like check yourself, whichever way you're, you know, walking through that door, you have to check yourself and you have to be, you know, respectful of the space for your partner and for yourself and your mental health, frankly, and we implemented that rule day one. And that was a rule that we were very steadfast about. And it saved us a lot of arguments, it saved us a lot of heartache. And we were successful. And I think we came out of this experience, saying like, I would absolutely start another business with you. You know, that's a no brainer, right? But like, you know, put my husband always tells me, I put them in boxes, right? Like I'm good at compartmentalizing things. And that was really important for the success of the business.

Matthew Osborn  
Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure also probably just thinking about the business relationships and business partners I've had in the past, the ones that seem to work out the best are the ones where we almost have very different skill sets from one another that so much so that doesn't necessarily over overlap all the time. Do you feel like you and your husband have very different skill sets from each other? Do you think you guys think a lot of like, it's funny,

Bonnie Watson  
we were just having this conversation kind of reflecting on the four years that we have these businesses and, you know, like as a chief executive officer in finance, and in this industry, like that's my lane, that's my expertise. That's where I'm have the ability to be a visionary and an innovator. Right. But in coworking that was not my lane. Like I didn't really know anything about the industry. He was deeply passionate about it. And I think the very best relationships have the entrepreneur and the operator, right? So then I would tell him, I said, like, you know, this industry, you have a vision for it. Go be the entrepreneur, go tell the story, you know, be that guy that, you know, people associate with all space. And when you give me what the plan is, I can execute as the operator, right? Like, I can come in here and say, this is XYZ, how we're gonna get this done, essentially. And that was a really helpful like bifurcation of our skill set. Yeah. And it worked really beautifully. Right. But I didn't know anything about co working and I just trusted you know, my husband being the expert to say like, this is what we're Getting I'm like, Okay, I'm on board. Like, let's let's do that.

Matthew Osborn  
That's really really cool. No, I like how you guys manage that and separate it I'm sure it's It's easy in concept to say separate home life and business life. Like you said, when you're working out of the same house living in the same house, all of that I'm sure it can be difficult at times, even with that intention to separate kind of that work and personal life. Do you guys curious living in Telluride random question. Do you guys snowboard ski? Have you guys ever been into that? Or not? Really? Yeah, we ski? Yeah, that's awesome. I love Telluride. I love that area. Because I grew up snowboarding, my wife snowboard, there's something fun we can do together. So I can just imagine if we live somewhere like that, it's like, Hey, let's go take some time on the slopes, get out of the wind out of the business mindset for a little while, it'd be a fun way to unwind. So you come from a form of finance background, would you say you're very entrepreneurial I am

Bonnie Watson  
today, today. And so it's really interesting. So I came from banking. And then I had a stint in venture capital and acceleration with high growth startups. And I ended up coming back to small business and supporting small business. And, you know, part of that journey was that I became an entrepreneur. And, you know, it, I kind of felt like, not a farce is the word I'm going to use. But like I was coaching these startups and coaching these small businesses and financing them, and, you know, investing in them, but like, I had never actually like walked the walk, if you will, you know, and I was, you know, giving advice about this, because it was my skill set, but like, I had actually never done it. And it's funny, my husband and I met in college in a class called entrepreneurial finance. And in that class, I remember the professor asking me, would you ever be an entrepreneur? And I was like, hell no. It's such a hard job. It's just, it's not my skill set. And I ended up becoming an entrepreneur, I was the one that actually proposed all space to my husband, you know, it can be an innovator and entrepreneur was like, Yeah, let's do this, you know. And it was such an important experience for me in my professional journey, and helping other you know, startups and small businesses, because I was able to sit at the table and say, like, I've been where you've been, I know how to solve that problem. You know, let's be let's solve that for you. Right. And so, I came from one side of the field, and I was on the other side now. And I was able to see both viewpoints, and I had walked in both shoes. And so today, I would very much identify as an entrepreneur. But until five years ago, I probably wouldn't have and it was such a critical journey for me to, you know, essentially do it to be in it and to learn the lessons of doing you know, like, you can only learn so much in a textbook, right. But like, there's a lot to be said for like street smarts, if you will. And so today, absolutely, I would absolutely identify that way.

Matthew Osborn  
Yeah, absolutely. Like the bringing it up the street smarts, entrepreneurship, it's, it's, I like my college experience, I loved the classes I took, I feel like I did get a lot of value from them. But I wouldn't say that any one particular class gave me like, Oh, if I didn't have this skill set, I couldn't have been an entrepreneur, like so much of it, is in the moment learning it's not something even go into the business knowing it's something you figured out along the way. And so it's it's interesting trying to teach entrepreneurship, because in one sense, you can teach basics, but another sense, it's something that you kind of have to have the grit inside of you to figure out along the way. And so it's cool that you're able to do that. Now, you've said, now you're a better position to help other people do that, which it sounds like, it's probably a lot of your job with energized Colorado, correct?

Bonnie Watson  
Yeah, I um, one thing I deeply Miss, I was at the Telluride venture fund, and we would run accelerators, you know, with different themes, whether it was Mining and Reclamation, or whether it was investment boot camps, or whatever. And I had a lot more hands on experience at that time, and was really helping coach businesses through whatever they were going through. And, you know, whether we were taking them to Demo Day for investment or whatever. But now at energize Colorado, you know, I don't get that time as much with entrepreneurs. And it's more about the challenge of trying to innovate the capital system in Colorado for small businesses. And so I missed that I don't get the touch point as much with entrepreneurs as I used to. But that experience, you know, I'm elevating that and to a CEO role to really, you know, I have the viewpoint and understand like, what the challenges are, and I wouldn't have been able to do that had I not had that experience. That

Matthew Osborn  
makes sense. I want to get into in just a second year, the three P's of success. But before that, just one thing I'm curious about when talking about lending to small businesses, like you're saying, fixing kind of the lending issues in Colorado for small businesses. Lending by itself is a very difficult thing to do to lend and be able to do that it's a very risky proposition in and of itself, then adding small businesses on top of that increases the risk, like tenfold. Even just with my experience, being an entrepreneur, starting a business, we started a business we're able to sell it successfully exit that business. I'm not even fully confident in myself. When I start a new business i Hey, I'm, I'm sure this new idea is going to work. And so coming at it from the standpoint of a lending institution, how in the world you kind of figure out what businesses to take risks on and which businesses not to because even like I said, coming to from my experience, it would be tough for me to identify, hey, this exists If business model is great, or do you guys come to it more from the standpoint of looking at the CEO or the leader of that organization, and saying we're more so putting our dollars behind this person as an individual versus just the idea they have at the moment? Yeah, that's

Bonnie Watson  
a great question. Um, I think traditionally, this industry has and entrepreneurs have looked at traditional banks for access to capital, right? It's the first place you would naturally think to go, and oftentimes, it's not like nine out of 10 times, it's like 10, out of 10 times they get told no, right. And so there's this like, really negative connotation in the industry that like, banks don't have my back. And you know, all the things that are said. And the truth is that, like banking is where small businesses want to be eventually, right. But all of the work that funds like ours and CDFIs are doing is helping be the stepping stone, you know, to essentially bankability and accessing capital. And I think one of the things that we're trying to change is that looking less at entrepreneurs and small businesses from like the bankable lens, you know, saying like, do you have the credit? Do you have the collateral and saying, Do you have the character instead, like, when I look at a small business and entrepreneur, I say, like, if I trust you, are you believable? Let's vet your business plan? You know, what, what holes and weaknesses Do you have? And what strengths do you have in that? Are you being realistic about your projections? Like, what traction Do you have, and so we're looking kind of more of those character based things and less of those like bankable, you know, five C's of credit, because businesses don't have that. And especially, you know, as we move into this very digital age, we're not brick and mortar businesses as much anymore, we're very much moving away from that. And so we have to take a different approach to lending and, you know, our organization, and especially some of these earlier funds, like ours, we do have a riskier portfolio, that's very, very true of this work. But we also realize that we have to marry that with really robust technical assistance. And the way that we approach that is like a peer to peer model through acceleration, right. So we fund a company, and then we put them through this peer to peer model where they're sitting in the room with other entrepreneurs who have, essentially solve the problems that they may be experiencing. Right. And that's really powerful, because that keeps them away from that like, Cliff of death, right, which is very common. I think the statistic is like seven years is like really your hurdle that you have to succeed, to be successful in business, right? And so that's, that's kind of how we look at it is like, who are you as an entrepreneur? What traction Do you have? Are you believable? Are you really solving a problem? Like what's your value prop in the market?

Matthew Osborn  
is So is going through that kind of co op with those other businesses? Is that mandatory to accept funding from energize Colorado that they're part of that community? Or is that just an option for them?

Bonnie Watson  
It's an option for them. But a lot of entrepreneurs immediately see the value in it right? And they, you know, opt in for that accelerator, but not all entrepreneurs need it either.

Matthew Osborn  
Have you been I'm guessing a part of those sessions at times where you regularly part of those sessions, we're going to see how I'm curious how those are run? Is it one person kind of running and teaching a specific topic? Or is it a bunch of question and answers? And people answer? How do they how do you kind of organize those meetings,

Bonnie Watson  
kind of all of the above? It just depends on the need of entrepreneur, but it's really focused on that, you know, peer to peer model. Okay,

Matthew Osborn  
that makes sense. That's really, really cool. I think that, like you said, going to a business bank for a business loan is something that, like you said, almost 10 out of 10 times is No, I know very few people that have ever gone through that process and come out the other end with cash from the bank. Most the time, it's something kind of laugh that when someone says or got a new a new idea, they never get a loan from the bank, it just doesn't typically happen that way. And so I really liked there's organizations like yours that exist. And I really liked your your model, because I think that's, you can have the best business idea in the world, I'm sure you've seen this. But if you don't have the right person running, that it's never gonna go anywhere. And you can also I'm sure you've seen very mediocre ideas, but with the right person somehow can make that flourish and do something amazing. So I really liked that attention to character over the typical credit signals you were talking about that you typically get, walk me through your three P's of success, and how that kind of came about and how that aligns with what you're doing now, and the success with the co working space you guys did before. Yeah,

Bonnie Watson  
so when I was talking to Dave, and you know, we were talking about, like, what are healthy habits? And, you know, how do you drive success with, you know, all the things that you experienced as, like a high functioning executive and being a mom and a wife, and, and I, you know, I've gone through, I'm a big advocate for counseling and therapy for people. I think that that's really, really valuable. And I think, you know, over the last 10 years of me being in therapy, I've kind of mentally mapped this pyramid, if you will. And I think about like, you know, the bottom of your pyramid has to be very, very stable, right? And that starts with you, right? Like, I have to be centered and I have to be confident and I have to be in a good place to be a good mother to be a good wife to be a good executive to be a good friend, right? And so like the bottom of that pyramid has to be stable. And that starts with you. And so like that first P is personal, right? It's about me, it's about what I do to really be the best version of myself, right? Because that influences everything else that you do, it influences your influence of people around you, it influences your organization. And then the top of that is your people, right? So the next layer of that pyramid is the people that you surround yourself with. And that's really kind of the them like, how are you impacting people. And on top of that is your professional goal, whether it's your business or your day job, whatever it may be, that's the US. So you're taking the work that you're doing and the habits you're building with yourself, and then with your people, and you bring that together at the top. And that's really where you see the success and organizations and you can drive goals. But you know, over the years, it's all about people, right? And that's, that's the root of everything. Like I think we sometimes lose sight of that as business owners or executives and we say like, the problem is this, the problem is not that the problem in solution is the people, right? Like it's the people around you, that caused the problem, and that are going to solve the problem, right. And so when I, you know, sat down to talk to David, I thought like, this is all about people. And it's also really about mental health. And when I look at these habits in those three areas, it's about protecting, you know, my mental health, your mental health and making sure that you're heard. And ultimately, if you do that, right, you can really drive change in an organization or within your business.

Matthew Osborn  
I like that a lot. I, when you were talking reminded me of a professor named Kevin Miller in college used to always have this saying that, once you start a business and you establish profitable demand, every problem you have in the business from that point forward is a people problem because you're working with people in some way, shape or form. Like you said, people think they have problems and other things. But no, everything is a people problem in some way, shape, and form. And so I really like that, what habits have you found to be most helpful for you, I'm specifically talking about time management right now, as far as being a wife and a mother, those are extremely time consuming all encompassing tasks. And then adding, managing a business being a CEO of business on top of that, really, yeah, just takes that to the next level, what habits have you found to be most successful for you in your life that you're kind of see you thriving with and you notice real fast, when you don't have those in place? I

Bonnie Watson  
think if I come down to like, my personal self, you know, like, I always tell people sleep, like, six hours is not going to get you anywhere, like you need to be having like between like eight and nine or 10 hours of sleep, and especially as a woman, like, hormonally, like, we have to have more sleep to be successful. You know, men can just you don't have to sleep, frankly, but we do and, and so sleep is like your best friend. And I think I look at especially the millennial culture, and Gen Z there is this mentality that like, it's really sexy to work hard, play hard. And my husband and I used to very much embody that mentality. And it's not because what it does is it, you burn out, right, and there's nothing notable or attractive about burning yourself out and working long hours. And the more rested you are, the more successful you are right. And so like prioritizing that in your life is really, really critical. And when you do that you have better, frankly, time management, right, you can make time for things. And that's kind of part of the time management too, is like carving that out for yourself. You know, I think the the other thing when I like, look at specifically Time management is being really diligent about how you're spending your time, right. And I think the other thing that at least I've noticed about myself as we spend a lot of time like looking at our phones and being in engaged and things that we shouldn't, and we're missing everything around us, right? Like we're missing our children growing up, and we're missing connection with our partner and our friends and our parents, you know, and it's like, just put that down. And once you like, remove this and all the distractions of it, you continue to have more time to I would say like, invest better into things right. And I think giving grace to that too. Like there's no you know, I can say you can get 10 hours of sleep every night but like there's nights when I go to bed at 12 o'clock, right because there's things going on and there's fires going on with your child or with your business or with your you know, company like yeah, it's not perfect, nobody practices it perfectly. But those are just things that I think like you wouldn't directly conflict with time management but they're really really critical in being successful in that.

Matthew Osborn  
Absolutely. Just curious what age are your give one child or few children

Bonnie Watson  
or 112?

Matthew Osborn  
Almost two okay. Yeah, I sleep is definitely very important. But it also can tell certain times and entrepreneurs talk about their sleep routines, whether they have kids or not with how they approach their their sleep because a lot of times sure it's easy to say 10 hours I'd love you two hours because you know what the child is not always doesn't always work out that way. But when you took over as CEO Oh, this was an existing organization before, correct? Was that difficult for you to go from leading a business and an entrepreneurial role to then somewhat being an employee in a sense of another business and not having as much direct control? As you probably did before? Does it still feel like you're able to scratch that entrepreneurial itch in your current CEO role that you are able to add to previous businesses? Well, um,

Bonnie Watson  
I think that I've been able to find a really good balance, you know, I think that I thrive better with more structure. And I think that's very much embodied in my work and my personal life. And so coming into an organization that while new since 2020, does have a lot of structure, right. And I think I'm able to really kind of bring that entrepreneurial mindset and and say, like, we're still very much a startup, even as a nonprofit, like we kind of, we really embody that mentality in the organization that like, we're here to innovate, we have to move quickly, we have to take risks, calculated risk. But that's kind of scratch that entrepreneurial itch for me, if you will, like let's innovate, let's, let's find a real solution that can help people that's different than what the industry is doing today. I don't thrive as well. Like my husband, for example, if you ever talked to him, like he loves the chaos of entrepreneurism and like, the unknown, and like, that is just not my ballgame. I want risk is okay, but like, figure out, yeah, what the next steps are. And so I think it's transitioned really well. And I've been able to like, you know, not perfectly, but in a really sense, like, balance them pretty well. But I personally like that structured piece a bit more, you know, I

Matthew Osborn  
really liked her, you're describing your guys's different personalities, relationships, because I see that working very well together as a partnership, that's kind of you always have, it seems like there's two extremes in the business, the visionary, the one that's off the wall, always over here. And the other one is say, hey, let's come back to Earth and organize this and make sure we can actually get it done. And you need that tension in business. One thing me and my business partners, Caleb and David, the other the other hosts this podcast always talk about is I think one of the things that was able to work well for us in our business is that we have very different personalities and very different skill sets. And oftentimes it does create tension, which is true. But I think for a successful business, you need that tension to kind of weed out bad ideas, and not all go straight in the wrong direction at full speed. I've seen a lot of people, I have a class that I'm able to help out with each semester at the college I graduated from, and it's talking to business students before they graduate, one of the things I always tell them is when you're looking at business partners, don't find someone that thinks just like you that has the same ideas as you that's, it's easy to do that because you think, hey, we have the same idea. We're very like each other, it'll it'll work out great. But oftentimes, you find that you run the same way in the wrong direction. And you don't realize it until it's too late. Find someone with very different skill sets in you. A different kind of personality can create some tension. And normally those relationships, I see that go that go the furthest in business. And so it's really cool to see you kind of talk about you and your spouse that way and how it seems like you guys have that perfect partnership. So yeah, I think you guys should start another business together sounds like it'd be a recipe for success, you and I need a little break, and your little break from it first. And then you can add and add in the child there eventually as well and start training them up.

Bonnie Watson  
Yeah, see how there's never a good time for anything, right? Like a family business.

Matthew Osborn  
I've thought about that before with my young kids like thinking about having a family visit in the future, that would definitely be an entirely different dynamic, trying to work with your kids. And there's definitely some good things about I have a friend actually in Colorado, he runs a business called general air, I'm not sure if you've ever driven around and seen general air locations, they have about 12 of them in Colorado, but he has a large business. And it's very much a family run business and his sons are getting old enough. They're graduating now and they're starting to work in the business. And he's experiencing the whole whole dynamic, he took it over from his dad, I love that. But it also I can see just talking to him that the pros and cons of having that environment, but I never worked with family like you work with your husband. And so it's interesting to me to always hear those stories to try and think of how that would potentially work in the future.

Bonnie Watson  
Like it funny that you say that because now Well, we've never like our kids are obviously not old enough to be that engaged, but my grandparents and the bookstore for the School of Mines in Golden for several years, I think. And they you know, their kids are old enough and they're like, you know, early 20s to like work in the business with them and they you know, hire them as employees and I'm sure that they have their challenges and we've certainly heard about them, but it also created like such a tight knit unit in our family, you know, like they they were like a family community. Right? And, you know, the stories and relationships that you see today were fostered because of that right? And they opened the door to their children to come in and their children then ended up starting businesses because of that, right? So there. I think there's a lot to be said for that. But like, you're also putting a lot on the line right with you know, personal relationships too and I can only imagine that could have been so Sometimes,

Matthew Osborn  
yeah, absolutely no, I can definitely see see the pros and cons to that I was listening to an interview a little while ago with the CEO of Netflix. And he had something interesting to say, I don't think it's gonna be applied to everything. But it was interesting as he, someone asked him what the keys are to success in leading an organization like Netflix, and creating a culture in the business. And he said, a lot of people will tell you, you need to have like our business, as a family, we run this business, like we're a family, it's a community of people. And he said, and all reality is like most businesses should not be thought of as we're a family, he's like, because you'd never, you'd never fire your mom, you'd never fire your sister. He's like, it doesn't typically work the way it said. He thinks businesses should be thought of more like a professional sports team, how we're a high performing team, we pay our players well to perform well. And if you have one bad game, you're not done, obviously, you're sticking around. But in one sense, you also are Your job is always up if someone else is going to perform better than you are. And so you always should be competing for that position. And know that one bad day is not going to throw you off. But this is a sports team, we are trying to win. And that's how he kind of thinks of his organization is more like a sports team than a family unit. It was an interesting juxtaposition to a lot of the businesses I've seen that run themselves as a hey, we are a family type culture. Yeah. Something I've been thinking about recently that was that caught my attention? Yeah. To

Bonnie Watson  
add on to that, I think that's kind of an interesting thought, because for some people, I'm sure it's successful. But I think that's like drawing the line in the sand. Like really what that saying is like you're leaving your emotions at the door, but you're bringing your empathy for your team, right. And especially in leadership, I think that like we this is my viewpoint is looking at a leader, somebody leading me is like, I don't want you to be emotional and unhinged. I want you to look steady, and I want to have confidence in you. And for me, that's leaving my emotion at the door and taking my opinion out of things. But bringing my empathy to be human with you right to say, like, I hear you, like, let's solve that problem. How do you empathize with your you know, whether it's your employee or your co founder. And that's, that's a really important rule, I think when we talk about like drawing the line in the sand, and I think that translates to spouse relationships, or family relationships and business, too. I

Matthew Osborn  
really liked that. Yeah, it's, it's something you, I don't think people necessarily are always able to articulate as well as you just did. But it's knowing that a leader has empathy, but yet they're not always acting off of their emotions, I think is huge. And I think we've all been in a position where we have a leader or a boss or someone that you know, is just very manipulated by their emotions all the time, you're not sure you can't trust what their decision making is, if it's the right decision, actually, for the right time. And so I really liked how you are you articulated that? What has been the biggest influence for you over the past couple of years, as far as books or podcasts that you've kind of relied on for a lot of direction and guidance, as you've been building? The businesses you've been building? Has there been a few core foundational things that you've been listening to and reading?

Bonnie Watson  
Yeah, um, I listen, I consume a lot of things. It's funny, I've moved away from like audiobooks, and more into podcasting, because I think that, you know, talking about time management, like we don't have, at least I don't have time to listen to like a 16 hour book, right, and try to absorb all of it. And so I've really moved like more into podcasting. And a lot of that focus has been on, you know, relationship building, or content driven, especially around you know, like finance or team management, and that, it's just like a quick bite, like 45 minutes that you can absorb, you can think and then we go on to the next topic. And it's like part of that, like, always learn something new everyday mentality and broaden your horizons, essentially. And I'm trying to think, admittedly, I haven't really listened to any audiobooks recently.

Matthew Osborn  
Yeah, we're on the same way books, I love books, but I feel like a lot of books can be summarized in one chapter versus the 16. They have and then that's why I really like summaries and podcasts, like you were saying, versus always reading the entire book or trying to listen to the entire book, because I don't know if that's always the best use of time. So I completely understand that. Yeah,

Bonnie Watson  
yeah, I was just trying Yeah, I can't even think of any, any books that I read, but like I listen, specifically listen to local, a lot, a lot of planet money. And, you know, just those, like, quick things that even things outside of business or, you know, like just general subject matter that I know nothing about, right. And it's always interesting, like how it intersects with your life. You're like, I didn't draw that correlation or like how that affects me. But I like learning. I've always been a learner and I want to learn new things, even if it's not within my lane of focus, you know, in my business or my career essentially. Stuff important.

Matthew Osborn  
That's always one of the most satisfying things to me, I think, is when I'm doing something completely unrelated to business. And I just want something could be anything and then something just clicks in your mind like it makes the connection you did not have before watching something completely unrelated. And I forget what it was I was driving with my wife the other day, and like, suddenly, she could tell like my stare went blank. And I was like, What is like, I think I just figured something out like it just just like something just clicks randomly or doing something completely different. And I think a lot of times those creative endeavors are listening to something new, or learning something new, completely unrelated. Your business is so powerful, because not only is your mind to think in a new way, but I think that really does unlock a lot of things, that you get trapped into staring at the same issues and same problems, day after day. Well,

Bonnie Watson  
I'm just gonna say I one thing that makes me think of one of the podcasts I listened to, and I always plug it not that I have any interest in it, but it's called All in. And it's like crazy to me how many people haven't heard about it, because it's such a, it. It's a group of four gentlemen who are very successful venture capitalists, and they talk a lot about, you know, tech, and they blend into politics very often. But what's really interesting about this podcast is they all have very different views on things, whether it's politics, or VC, or tech, or whatever it is, you know, they've got a guy who is very much in like the science space, and then there's the political guy, and then there's, you know, the tech founder and like, it's, I appreciate it, because they're bringing multiple viewpoints together to kind of challenge each other's thinking. And it's really powerful, you know, and I oftentimes listen to that. And I'm like, wow, I didn't even think about it that way. Because we're often times so one sided and only standing in one set of shoes. Yes, yeah. It's called all and it's not like David Sachs and Jason Calacanis. And it's, it's a really good podcast, even if you're not in the tech world, they talk about a multitude of different subjects, you know, whether it's foreign affairs, or whatever it is, it's really interesting. And it's really broadened my viewpoint on a lot of things.

Matthew Osborn  
I really liked it. I liked what you said, having those different viewpoints in the same room. I think that's something we've somewhat lost today, where I feel like a lot of times, if you have opposing viewpoints as someone that always ends up in some form of an argument, it's not productive at all. That's why I love real debates, we have two different people with opposing views that are just talking. They're not attacking two, they're just talking, sharing those ideas. And so I really liked it, it seems like you said they have different personalities, and they have a wide ranging discussion. I really think it's one of the reasons Joe Rogan's podcast is so big is because it's you're very familiar person and Joe Rogan. But he talks about so many different things, from science to sports, to bring people on about therapies, and all the all these random things he talks about. And it really gets your mind to think in so many different ways. And that's why I think his podcast is one of the biggest ones, because he has that diverse wealth of knowledge that he's bringing in there. And so that's really cool. Do you run your businesses through the traction model? I think I'd saw David made a note about traction, do you use traction in your businesses?

Bonnie Watson  
No, we didn't. But I do know the model. Um, but I didn't directly implement that model. Now.

Matthew Osborn  
Is there any specific kind of structure model you follow with your businesses? Or is this something you've learned over time? Is there a specific cadence you use to keep all your employees on the same page and set goals? And do those meetings every single week? Do you have a model you follow for that?

Bonnie Watson  
So with our businesses, we didn't do that. But with energize Colorado, we use the exact traction model and do the l 10. And so we specifically focus like Monday morning meetings, we're meeting with the entire team, we're doing our report outs on our scorecards and rocks, essentially, any issues that we have, or any announcements, and then I do, and I find this really valuable, and it's only sustainable in a very small team. But every other week, I have a one on ones with every employee of my of the company to essentially just touch base and have just a space for you and me to say like, what are you dealing with what's going on, and it can be anything about business, it can be personal, but it's this touch point, with each person to just have that, you know, kind of like intimate time in 30 minutes to just discuss whatever's going on. And then we also have our end of week check in. So we're starting the week with the team. We have touch points throughout the week, of course, and then we end the week with the team to to say like, what were your wins, like, what fires did you put out today? What are you doing for the weekend, you know, like, kind of humanizing the whole corporate culture, if you will, sometimes which we really lose touch with people sometimes. And I think culturally, that's something that was implemented in the organization before it was there. And I think culturally, it's created a very tight knit team that like, consistently has your hand, you know, my hands always on your back, basically, right? Like I'm always here for you. I'm always listening to you. And I think that that traction system allows us to stop talking and listen to other teammates, right, and that that's a big flaw that like I've had in leadership and probably absolutely still have, right like we feel, especially as owners or executives that like we have to constantly fill the empty space in the room all the time by talking. And I think if we would just stop talking and we would listen. There's a lot more value in that right and leaving room for like all the voices at the table is really important to me, right? Like every team member, whether you're, you know, boots on the ground employee or whether you're an executive of the company, like, your voice needs to be heard, right, because there's so many things to be learned from that. And that's what I really like about, you know, the traction system. within our organization today, it's

Matthew Osborn  
really cool to hear that traction is not something we did in our past business. But it's something I've been learning a lot about, I my, my friend was talking about the lives in Colorado that has that business out there, he implemented traction his business about four or five years ago now. And it was kind of life changing for their business, they had another friend out here that implemented his business and his business completely turned around for the better as well. And so I've been really doing studying on that, seeing how that whole system works. And like you said, I really liked that it's it's not meetings all the time, but there are consistent touchpoints. And I really liked about it that it seems that everyone's responsible for a number, everyone has a goal. And it keeps everyone accountable the same way, whether you're a leader or whether you're at the bottom rung of the organization, in a sense, to having something you're accountable for that, you know, you're going to be talking about in front of a group, at least once a week. And so I really, really liked that accountability system. But going to what you said about you enjoy hearing from everyone in the organization, because they all bring such different viewpoints. I think that's so powerful. And I think that's something that's often overlooked. One thing we often talked about, we used to do in person events for our customers, we bring all of our customers out, and we had Amazon sellers, and most of our Amazon sellers sold books on Amazon. So it's a bunch of nerdy booksellers in the room talking about selling on Amazon. And it was a blast. But one of the things that we found over the years doing these events that was so funny, but seemed to be very reoccurring theme is that it was often a brand new person, a very small seller that was doing something completely out of the normal what we normally do, that to them didn't mean very much. But if you apply that to a seven or eight figure, Amazon seller, that one little thing they're implementing their business could completely transform this other business. And we really came to the assumption that everyone has these different skill sets and unique abilities. And whether they're just starting out or they've been doing for a long time. There's something they're bringing value, there's something their voice is sharing, even with everyone, even if they're just brand new, sharing what they're doing, sharing their experiences, can help the entire organization or help everyone at the at the meeting as a whole. And so I really liked that the traction model and the way you guys are doing, it seems to be able to bring in that aspect of it, where everyone's able to have somewhat of an opinion, to voice their concerns and talk about what's happening organization, I'm sure that leads to just a more cohesive organization as a whole.

Bonnie Watson  
Well, and it also lends insight to how everybody plays on the team essentially, right? Because in my opinion, that's one of the big things that leaders miss is like, you get siloed sometimes like your employees get siloed in their work, and they're not talking to each other, or maybe they don't understand what the other person is doing. Right? And so systems like these allow you to say like, oh, like, I know what Matt's doing, and I know what you're doing and like, How can I help support you? And what is the effect of your work? How does that trickle down into my work? Right? And it? It doesn't just like humanize the process, it lends clarity to like your organizational systems and how people play with each other. Essentially, in the organization. Have

Matthew Osborn  
you implemented any type of weekly catch up or get together meeting with your spouse for planning and things like that? Do you guys have like any type of weekly huddles routines that you go through with your husband you found to be helpful? Yeah,

Bonnie Watson  
we, we try. We don't not always successful at this, but once a week, we try to get out of the house, you know, have grandma watch the baby? Well, she's, she's a toddler now. But watch Eva, and we just try to get you know, two or three hours, whether we go to dinner or do something, you know, just to remove all the distractions of life, right? And really, like hyper focus on each other to say, like, how are you doing? Like, we talked about this thing that blew up at work, but like, how is that affecting you? Like, how do you feel like how's your mental health? How's your headspace right now, it also I think, just gives us an ability to reconnect with each other, you know, whether we're having dinner or like, you know, rock climbing or riding bikes or mountain biking like, it just allows you to get grounded again with your spouse and we're not always successful at it every week, but we really try to find that time. Yeah, that's

Matthew Osborn  
something that I want to get a lot better at. There's something I'm not great at now. But I think it's important to make a various even though you like you said throughout the week, I'm sure you spend time with your spouse and you see them and you talk on his things but setting out a very specific time. As a time to review the week to plan what's going on next week is not something I've done well but I really want to start getting better at with my wife is just setting a time once a week once probably the kids are in bed because once you start having a lot of kids it's even harder to give them the grandma multiply we have baby number four arriving in like eight weeks and so we've got a house full. But after the kids are asleep is setting a time or something like that, or maybe once every other week or once every three weeks drop Martha Graham or something like that. For those those reviews. I think it'd be really, really helpful. It's something I've been thinking about David I was very good at that him and his his fiance. do weekly huddles right now, and they have a whole structure to and they've been very consistent in that. And he said, It's been one of the most transformational things for the relationship is having that time each week to talk through and say, Hey, what were the good things? And hey, what was the bad things? Where did we miss the mark? Where can we improve this following week? And a lot of times, I think those things kind of get thrown thrown under the rug if you don't have that consistent time every week. So that's pretty cool that you guys are able to do that. I'm completely changing topics for one second, I want to go back to something you said at the very beginning, because I'm curious your thoughts on it. You said something along the lines of putting your phone away being present being present for your family. That's something that recently I've realized, partly because I've realized, and partly because people told me, I have my phone around me all the time. And it's so easy to just be with your kids or be with your spouse, but still have that distraction in your hand have something there. And putting that phone away, even in a separate room has helped so much with that dynamic. How have you thought about technology with in relationship to your spouse and your child and your use of it? Do you allow your child to be on tablets? Have you thought about that very much about our businesses are run on technology. So it's easy for us to always have them in our hands. But it's also not always the most beneficial thing? How do you kind of manage that dynamic in your house right now? I'm just curious.

Bonnie Watson  
Yeah, it's like the topic of conversation right now for sure. And it's just kind of a constant power struggle. I think, like I look, I live in the world where like, I grew up and like, I didn't have a cell phone until I was like a freshman in college. And that was not a thing for me. And like we had like the Hewlett Packard, like desktop, and like, we didn't have this connectivity and everything. And like, I grew up outside in the dirt, like I was in the mountains, and like I had dirt under my fingernails. And like that was and I loved that. Like I loved being out there and doing something that was interactive to me. And I think the risk that we're running today is like one, it's really hard to get away from screen time, right? It's everywhere. TVs, tablets, phones, and I didn't want that for our kids. You know, I wanted I wanted them to, to avoid it as much as we possibly could, right? Because not only of my experience is being a child, but then my experience as an adult, like you get, if you go look at your usage report and your time spent on applications, its usage, right, like you're like, oh my god, I spent X amount of numbers on you know, Instagram this. That's, I hate that, you know. And so one thing like we've implemented is like I don't, I'm saying this now with a two year old, right? Like, this could definitely change. But I don't want her to be pulled into that stuff. You know, I think it's super addictive. I think especially as adults, we experience the addiction to that kind of thing. How do we engage her in things that really like grow her brain, right, and like, let's just let's get outdoors, let's learn to ride a bike. And I see, I see. And I'm not judging the situation with family. It's like every family is different. But like, I don't want my kid to, you know, be plugged into a tablet at dinner, you know, I want that's really important for family structure is to like have important conversation at dinner and connect again, it's like that people aspect like connecting and listening to your people, whether that's your children or your employees, right? I think and my husband I have this conversation like, and we haven't implemented this yet, but it's also really hard to get away from your phone because your calculators on there your cameras on there, their flashlights on they're like, how do we go back to this analog system? Like, do I have to carry a flashlight around? Do I need a

Matthew Osborn  
flashlight button?

Bonnie Watson  
Totally like, do I put a calculator in my front pocket in case I need to like do I do I take out my my camera, you know, with my like card, like, I don't know, I don't know really how to solve that. But we've become so dependent on this. And that's something we're trying to be very mindful of. And we're not always perfect at it. But we're trying to be mindful of it.

Matthew Osborn  
Yeah, it's a very difficult balance. I'm in the same shoes of you. But I love to just try and set my phone in my room and not have it on me. But I always need some things and a calculator, the flashing or some random thing on my phone where you always need something or you get a stupid two factor authentication code on the computer and you go grab your phone out of the bedroom to grab that off our children, I completely. When I didn't have kids, I always said our kids would never have tablets, they wouldn't be in front of the screens all the time and stuff like that. And then you realize why parents do that so often is because it's so easy to give your child a tablet and suddenly they're quiet in a spot sitting the same thing. You can get things done, you can go about your day. And one thing we've done with our kids, when we take that tablet away, they have no idea what to do with their time. They're just there's always on you. They're always with you. And so that's why it's so easy to give a tablet it settles them down and stuff like that, but it's not always the best solution. And so we've we've recently instituted where there's a certain time of the day they can have their tablets. No it's not we stick them on top of the refrigerator where they can't grab those tablets. And they have to do it and this maybe this sounds cruel. I don't know if this sounds cruel, but I remember growing up I played outside a lot like just going on aside and playing was what me and my siblings did all the time. And my kids don't do that near as much, right. And so there's certain times of the day now we're like, hey, go outside, I'm gonna lock the back door, just figure it out, it's like, we're not going to entertain you, you have to figure out how to entertain yourselves for a little while. And they always want dad or mom to come out or play with them, or entertain them and say, Hey, this is part of growing up, as you say, learning how to make a game, learning how to play together, learning how to entertain yourself, you're outside for the next hour, figuring out you have playgrounds, your toys, all that kind of stuff. And so it is definitely a difficult balance, especially as the kids get older. Like thinking about my son, he's already at the point now he's still young, but thinking about the stuff I've told him about business and how we can make money and maybe start this business and things like that. And you want in one sense, give them the technology to help them with that. But on the other hand, you also want them to be a kid and not have a computer in their room at all times and worried about these things? I don't know, it's a very, it's a hard balance. And it's something people are going to be struggling over for the next decade, especially as AI expands and gets even more prevalent in our lives. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have a good answer for it. But it's a very difficult challenge right now that we're trying to work through. It's just curious. Yeah, what you guys were doing. So it's interesting to see you guys

Bonnie Watson  
further in it than I am. And so it's helpful for that. But, you know, one thing that really, I kind of had the aha moment with screentime was I was watching this, I don't know if it was on, like, tick tock or what it was, but this dad, essentially, you know, videotaped his children. And the engagement was when he was off his phone. And when he was on his phone, and he has a daughter, it's interesting about my age are about Eva's age, excuse me. And so like, the first clip is when he's not on his phone, and his little toddler walks in the room, and she like, is engaging with her dad, and she's smiling, and she's playing and like, is deeply deeply engaged, because he is giving his time to her right. And then the next clip is him on his phone. And so she walks in and sees dad, and she's kind of like, you know, assessing the situation out and trying to get his attention. And just, it was really sad to me to watch that. And I think about, like, his parents how often we're absorbed in that, and our children are looking for our attention. And then, like, to your point, they're vying for our attention all the time, is because we're not, you know, being diligent and mindful of that with them. And it just broke my heart. And I, you know, and I, you see it all the time, like, friends hang out, like, and they're just on their phones, and they're sitting next to each other quality time is that you know, and it's just, it's a big problem. And I like, again, you have to be so mindful of it. That

Matthew Osborn  
That really hits home because I know I do that all the time. And I also know that I'm, I tend to tell myself, Oh, I spend way more time with my kids, and I think most parents do. But spending time with their kids being in the same room is not the same as being present and being with them. And just because I'm with my kids for four hours, if I'm scrolling through my phone for three and a half of that not directly paying attention to them, it's not the same they understand, even if they can't express that, that that's not quality time with dad sitting next to someone on the phone when they occasionally answer questions. And so that's something I really want to figure out a better strategy for going forward. Yeah, it's definitely something that's important. And I think something could just struggle with as the kids grow older and things like that. So where can people as we kind of wind this down? Where can people to want to learn more about you or follow you or things like that, what's the best place for them to get in contact with you or just get updates on what you're up to?

Bonnie Watson  
I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So that's always a good place to go. You can also visit our website to energize colorado.com to kind of get an update on what we're doing. And companies we're funding and a lot of subject matter in there. So those are always really good places. I'm not nearly as active on social media as I used to be, but like LinkedIn is kind of the one social media platform that I'm pretty active in.

Matthew Osborn  
And if people are interested in learning more about energized Colorado, or maybe even getting funding for business, do you only work with businesses in Colorado? Or do you work with businesses outside of Colorado as well? Nope, we're

Bonnie Watson  
solely focused on businesses in Colorado. So there's no county designation. It's literally any business within the state of Colorado, any county. And we focus on funding all entrepreneurs, but we have a designation for businesses that are rule that are in by POC and women owned, because we know that those are deeply underserved communities when it comes to capital access. And so while we fund all people, we have a certain skill set, especially around those demographics of borrowers. And

Matthew Osborn  
then if someone's listening to this, let's say they're in Colorado, or let's say even they're out of Colorado and they're wanting to get funding for a business with a business like yours or yours specifically, what type of things would you recommend they think through and have in place before really approaching someone like yourself for funding for their small business? There are a few things that should always consider having placed before kind of going down that route.

Bonnie Watson  
Yeah, I think I mean, a plan, right? Like we talked to so many entrepreneurs that are like, well, I've got this idea and I'm like, I love that I love the ideation. I love the proof of concept but a lot of access to capital needs, you know, product and marketing is a plan needs a business plan needs projections, even if they're wrong, bring us something so we can digest it at least right. I think also in Colorado, and this is something that all of us in this industry are guilty of is that it's not as easy as you would think to navigate the resources for small businesses, right. And so what's really beautiful about the state though, is that you can reach out to several people in the ecosystem of entrepreneur, Small Business and entrepreneurism. And they're willing to talk to you for you know, they're willing to give their time to help you kind of navigate that. And so I think it's always worth reaching out to say, like, here's what I want to do. Here's my idea. Maybe I have some traction, maybe my business is five years old, like, Who can I talk to, and I think we're always willing to give that time to help you navigate it, because there's not like this one stop shop right now where you can like, get technical assistance or resources or you know, whether it's workforce or employees, whatever it may be. So yeah, but that have a plan. Like, I think in the in the vein of like, don't waste people's time, like, have something you know, for us to work with and digest at least to better help direct you. Gotcha.

Matthew Osborn  
Okay. So energize Colorado, have a plan have something more than just in just an idea when you approach someone or energy Colorado or problems assuming it's for a lot of businesses like yours in the countries, I have some type of proof of concept show the idea has some more thought behind it, besides just an idea, in your mind, put some numbers on paper? And what type of was curious what funding levels? Do you guys offer? Is it like very small business startup, like a couple $1,000 type thing? Or is it up to large ideas that need significant funding? What range do you guys fund in? Yeah, this

Bonnie Watson  
is a pretty important delineation in like the capital stack, if you will. So we right now are for established businesses, you have to have at least two months or two months of revenue to be funded. And we I would very much call some microfinance or we go up to $150,000. But there are a lot of players that can help with more institutionalized businesses, you know, you might be a manufacturer in Colorado, or, you know, rent a childcare facility and you need more robust Capital to help with you know, real estate or whatever it may be, we're really focused on that $150,000 range $10,000 for operational capitals, those day to day expenses, hiring employees, supplies, you know, buying equipment, maybe. But that's really important because a lot of the big gap in the market, I think, right now is that we don't have a lot of startup financing. So somebody's like, Oh, I wanna I want to, you know, start a business and I have a proof of concept, you know, but I'm not to market yet. That's a really hard area to fund right now. And we see a lot of people going to friends and family to do that. And debt typically is not a good tool for that type of business. Not always, but it's not a good, you know, type of capital tool. So, yeah, just a couple of things to earmark there is people are looking

Matthew Osborn  
awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We will link to your LinkedIn in the show notes of this this podcast in case people want to connect with you. Or just follow along and then it's energized. Colorado is energized. colorado.org.com.com are energized. colorado.com If you want to find more about business lending if you're in Colorado, thank you so much for spending time with us today. I really appreciate it.

Bonnie Watson  
Yeah, thanks, man. I appreciate it.