Frameworks Deserve to be Shared: Reflections on Season One | Ep 29

David Chung  
Welcome to Episode 29 of the Stacking Habits podcast where your hosts, Matthew, Caleb and David. And today is a different episode, we'll be recapping this first season of Stacking Habits, reminiscing on the previous guests and topics that we had. And we have a surprise announcement near the end of the episode. So make sure you listen all the way through.

Caleb Roth  
Welcome to the Stacking Habits podcast with your hosts, David, Matthew and Caleb. Our mission each week is to dig into the habits, rituals and routines of guests who are living life to the fullest. But remember, knowledge without action is worthless. So be sure to take what you hear, put it into practice, turn these words into words in your own life. Without further ado, let's dive in.

David Chung  
Caleb... So you were saying you were listening to 15 to 20 minutes of each episode?

Caleb Roth  
Yeah, it was, it was really fun to just do the recap, I forgotten about some of our guests. And a few takeaways. One, we had some, we had some incredible guests. And I know we did the relationship series, but a lot of our earlier guests kicked off like sort of touched on relationship themes as well. And so there was it was just kind of interesting to see that overall theme permeate throughout it. To Matthew's point about stepping away, I think our best audio episodes were the ones that we recorded in the studio, the way that each of our voices sound when it's professionally mixed, and when it's in person was really good. Like I think all of our voices sound great. And then it's not bad on Riverside, but I think it's a little more garbled, maybe a hair fuzzy. And so like, as much as it's not fun to pay for studio time, I think you get a better quality product as

Matthew Osborn  
a result. Yeah, I think probably also a big factor is our ears notice each voice sound similar, where it's more of a distinction of like, my audio sounds this way, and you have a different mic and different internet. And you're just the pitch is all different in everything. And when it's a studio. It all sounds so similar, that it just feels more like what our ears are used to hearing. I feel like so we just accept it easier. But yeah, it is interesting. Audio definitely does have a big part of it.

Caleb Roth  
I thought that's So

David Chung  
real quick, also just being in person. We've talked about this many times, but just being able to bounce back and forth. The conversation is just a lot more fluid in person.

Caleb Roth  
Yeah, I felt that as well, where we were, it was easier to jump in without stepping on toes. And I felt like it was a little more lively as a result.

Matthew Osborn  
Should we go over those top episodes? I was surprised actually was not I pulled it out because you looked at it recently. It was different than I was expecting it to be.

Caleb Roth  
I did I'm not surprised because Episode One was the most listened to which that typically tends to be the case. Yeah.

Matthew Osborn  
And episode zero is more like an intro. But it's second. And so it kind of makes sense to

Caleb Roth  
Yep. And then, yeah, David, did you look this up? Or are you coming in blind?

Matthew Osborn  
This is your guest and don't look at it. Don't look it on your computer. David, what do you think number is 01 or one and two?

David Chung  
Number three, my guess would just be let's see, I would think either Kyle Horne or Brad Reubendale, just because it was earlier on in the season. And they both talked about really interesting topics.

Matthew Osborn  
It was episode 16 with Aaron Dodge, building momentum through small wins. I was totally off. I'm curious if that's because he's promoted it to his audience too. Or if it's just something about the title that intrigues people or what that would be, but that's that one's risen recently because I wasn't up there all the time. But yeah, it's very close to the top two.

Caleb Roth  
Think it's because we put superpower in the title and everybody likes getting powers. So we shouldn't change

Matthew Osborn  
your superpower that that is a good title just right there. If you don't read on make routines your superpower. It's like ooh, I wanted to automate my routines my superpower.

Caleb Roth  
It was good. The next one was an internal so it was playing offense. It's one of the ones we recorded down in Phoenix. So it was kind of reflections on seven years of running a startup that was a it was a fun episode. It's interesting that that one resonated as well. Was

Matthew Osborn  
this the one that I was trying to figure out when I looked at this list last which is the one that we blast it off to the list of old customers that randomly got a lot of views because of that email blast. Do you remember which one had that spike?

Caleb Roth  
Ah, it could have been that one

Matthew Osborn  
because it was one of them I remember we sent out an email to all the paths or not all but certain past customers name is tracking spreadsheet it was and we got a boost on one episode is couldn't remember which episode that was.

David Chung  
I thought it was an internal-sode it might have been that one.

Matthew Osborn  
And then number five, is Mindfulness & Mason Jars with Adam Dell. That was

David Chung  
that one was a really good one. Yeah.

Matthew Osborn  
I liked I really liked Yeah, the way Adam Dell was able to speak, I feel like we're all captivated the whole time.

David Chung  
There are certain certain episodes that stood out to me as being notable. And all our guests were great. And you know, I am so grateful to have, you know, their time on our show. But there were certain guests where I just felt like we got into a groove with Adam Dell being one of them where I was like, Man, I don't want this conversation. And I feel like we should go for another two, three hours. Yeah, absolutely.

Caleb Roth  
I think my favorite too, if we had to pick them, were back to back. It would have been Brad Reubendale. And then Audrey Wyman. I think we recorded those the same week. But both guests spoke from their heart. I was really dialed in to both of them. And just enjoyed the conversations. I feel like we were able to dig deep, sort of get past the surface level questions and go right to right to the heart right to some of the depth. And I thought both of them just showed up in a big way. And I really enjoyed those those conversations personally.

Matthew Osborn  
So yours were Brad Reubendale

Caleb Roth  
it would have been Audrey Wyman.

Matthew Osborn  
And it's your to David, or do you have to

David Chung  
come to my you know, I took down some notes. I really liked Joe gees episode a lot. I also really enjoyed Adam Dell's and Tygh Walters, it was a more recent one. Yeah, that was a good.

Matthew Osborn  
I was gonna say eight, nine, we're definitely up there for me to say, Joji, I really like because I felt like it was one of the most practical ones we've done, where it's like afterwards, I feel like people can listen to that. I was like, oh, I want to do this, this and this. You showed us how to show us what it's done for. I was very practical. And hey, here's a step you can take, that's easy. Here's the steps you can take, that's easy. And here's the result is made. So I really like Joe juice, I think was really practical. Adam Dell's like we said it was just kind of captivating. He was great at presenting his stories and just made me want to listen to him more. So I really like Adam Dells. And then kind of a close second third was that one of the most recent ones we did was, let me see what episode it was. One of the newest episodes we did was the finding purpose after serving with Wes and Chris, I really liked that one. Because I feel like there's a difference. And this is one of the things we can talk about later. But one of the takeaways I had from it, but between being successful at something and being passionate about something, and sometimes those go together, but they don't always go together. But you can hear in someone's voice when they're passionate about what they're successful. And I feel like those guys just talking about their story and the people they've helped and just how they're in service to all these people, you could hear the passion in their story and their voice and the individual things they've been through and how they've helped other people through those. I really liked that episode too.

Caleb Roth  
And I will I will give those two fine gentlemen a shout out actually followed up with them both on Marco Polo, after the episode just said thank you for coming on really appreciated their their time and attention. And we got the chatting and connecting and bouncing ideas. And then they they just throw me into there we bust group. And so it's a group designed specifically for dads of which I am six times over. And so it's really interesting. I've been a fly on the wall on that one I haven't participated yet. But there's some really incredible men in there that are just doing their best to improve their lives, you know, work on habits, so it kind of fits right in with the podcast, but then just be great, you know, husbands partners and dads. And that was that's been really cool to see because those two are just energetic, outgoing, like it was super fun to be part of that conversation. And then to follow up after the fact and see that the way that they approach life is exactly how they showed up for the podcast. So shout out to those two fellas, because they're they're practicing what they preach every single day.

David Chung  
Caleb, you asked us to prepare one key insight or takeaway that we had from season one, Stacking Habits, and I jotted down a few notes. Did you want to just jump into that?

Caleb Roth  
Sounds amazing.

David Chung  
All right. Why don't we do this? I'll go first and then I'll popcorn it off to someone else. Cool. That way I don't risk you guys. Or me saying the same thing as one of you guys, I guess. All right. So I had three takeaways from this first season of Stacking Habits. And it really came down to this concept of frameworks. To your point, Caleb, we've been talking a lot about frameworks but there are three of them. Most like habits or Yeah, three habits that really stood out to me overlapping habits among multiple guests. So the first one was the habit of self awareness. People described it in different ways. Aaron Steinberg talked about, you know, finding your theme, you know, looking inside and identifying your theme. And then Zach price talked a little bit about it being able to separate sort of the person from the risk and behavior, Aaron talked about it in battling through sort of his low period. But this concept of self awareness and being able to take a step away from the situation that you're in and being able to identify who you are where you're at. That was one habit that sort of stood out as an overlapping habit. And then the next one was setting a clear, clear roadmap. Mike McCarthy talked about this in the first episode, setting a goal board, figuring out where you're going to go. Adam Dell talked about it a little bit through his gratitudes just writing down things that you're grateful for. And then Michael Bertell, I mean, his entire episode was on goal setting and habits. And so setting a clear roadmap that was a second big habit that I took away as an overlap. And then the last one was cadence. It felt like every other guest was really talking about setting cadences to your habits to fortify it and make it more impactful. So Brad Reubendale, he had an annual cadence of setting his different I forget exactly what they were called the Five. Do you guys remember what it was called? It was like the five

Matthew Osborn  
year bucket list thing. He updates was it every 10 years? That was a longer one that wasn't it was like every

David Chung  
thing. There is an annual thing. There was an annual habit. Kyle Horne, you know, talked about sprinting every week as his main form of exercise. Meagan Allers was talking about sending polos to her friends and family daily. And so I thought it was really interesting that, again, these three habits sort of stood out to me as being core habits that a lot of people followed. A lot of the successful people followed. Love that, David. So

Caleb Roth  
knowing who you are, where you are, where you want to go and accent of having those rhythms would be sort of that cliff notes of the three main principles.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, exactly.

Caleb Roth  
Like it, Matthew, you want to share your takeaways.

Matthew Osborn  
So I didn't do three takeaways. I did a favorite moment, I did a big takeaway. And then unexpected less than the three things that I saw you mentioned there. So I've had a little bit different structure there. I will say every time you guys keep mentioning sprinting kind of warned us and say I think about that episode. Every single time I get out that sprint time runner if you guys remember, we're gonna do this sprinting challenge. I got that sprint timer off Amazon. And then we I use that for myself. But then for when I was helping coach true, its flag football, we did it to time the kids 40 yard sprint. So we got that back out. And the kids absolutely love doing sprint timing. And then recently true, its friend had a birthday party. And their dad asked me to bring the sprint timer because he wanted to race all of his friends. And so I set that sprint timer back up and all the friends got to race and sprint each other. And every time I pulled a little timer out it makes me It reminds me of Kyle horn that episode we did. And so I'm just grateful for that that episode with people we've met through this process. But so I'll do the favorite moment the big takeaway then unexpected lesson and then I'll hand it over to you, Caleb. So favorite moment, was probably just an episode. I really liked our internal episode we did in person in Phoenix. I liked that we just had. Even though we had guests that were interviewing that time to the personal episode, I feel like we could have just gone on for twice as long as we did three times as long as we did. It just flowed. I felt like that episode just you can't really prepare to Caleb to kind of lead off that conversation. I feel like we all just kind of pitched in. And I just enjoy talking with you guys enjoy going to dinner with you guys having conversations. And so getting to film that and look back at it and listen to it again is fun. So that was probably one of my favorite moments. The podcast is that intro episode together in person in Phoenix. The big takeaway I kind of already mentioned it, but as listening through different guests and stuff like that, not that we've had a terrible guests or anything like that. But I feel like there is like we said, there's people that are successful things. And there's also people that are passionate about things and sometimes there's overlap, but sometimes they do and someone could be a great investor. But if they're not passionate about it, they can still be successful, but you can hear it in the way they talk about it or there could be people like you just experienced Caleb, where Warren Buffett has been investing his whole life and you can tell he loves this. It's what he loves to do. It's what he loves to think about. It's what he loves to ponder and you can hear the passion, even if he's not over the top The way he presents himself, you can tell he loves what he does, he puts a lot of thought behind it and the different guests we have, you can just tell when you get on a vein or you ask a question along the lines of something they're passionate about. You can see like, their eyes light up, they clicks on. And they can just start talking about it versus other questions where you can tell they're answering from a place of experience, but it's not a place of passion, necessarily. And then you ask the right question, you get along that vein of something they're really into, and suddenly their eyes light up. And you hear that in their response. And so the big takeaway for me was just to, I guess the big takeaway is listening at each guest and hearing the different things they were passionate about, and how you could tell just by listening to them, what those things were kind of a really shows. And so success is not always in line with passion. And sometimes they go together, but not always. And then unexpected lesson is, it wasn't really the same way with our last podcast books and bourbon, because we had a different format to the show. I feel like we felt it a lot more this one. But as that you think of a podcast and doing interviews, and you think of interviews is the hard part, or interviews is the thing that takes a lot of time. But in reality, it's finding high quality guests and setting up high quality guests for interviews is the hardest part of the podcast least in the initial stages, by far, like the interviews, even though it's the main thing people hear the podcast, that's the easy part of the podcast, the hard part of the podcast is finding great people to interview and setting up those interviews, and everything else that goes along with that. And so I remember because our process was different for books and bourbon, we had a little bit of a different flow for getting guests, that came a lot easier. I was expecting just the the interviews to be what we took most of our time doing. But finding guests finding high quality guests a difficult thing to do. There's so many people out there like you experienced Kayla with a post one time, so many people want to be on a podcast, that's not hard to find people that want to be on a hot podcast, but finding high quality guests is difficult. And so that was one unexpected lesson is just finding high quality people is tough. There's not a ton of high quality people out there's a lot of average people out there's a lot of people that put on a show that they're they're passionate what they're doing are successful what they're doing, but finding true people that are masters of their craft is difficult to find when you find them you great interviews, but it's it's tough to pick out those people.

David Chung  
Matthew gray at that point, if you had to guess a percentage, I want to hear from both of you guys, if you had to put a percentage of like, people that would be a good fit to be a guest on this podcast, what would you put that percentage?

Matthew Osborn  
Of like all people everywhere?

David Chung  
Yeah, just like, let's just say like, people who, like obviously, like more than half the world is disqualified because they can't speak English, right? It's a very, maybe another half people to

Matthew Osborn  
fit. Yeah, there's like, we're like we figured out looking for guests, there's such a unique bucket they have to fit in, they have to be someone that excels at a certain craft or something specific, they have to have habits or routines around that. And they have to be able to present those in a way that's compelling to the audience. And having all three of those things put together as a difficult combination, at least to identify and find. I'm sure there's tons of people that fit that, but people that were able to find and identify easily is where the challenge happens, I feel like I don't know, I don't know, percentage would be,

Caleb Roth  
I would say low single digits. I don't know if that's three or 5%. But that kind of feels like maybe the maybe the upper bounds. And again, my my criteria is pretty much what Matthew just said, but it would be intentional people so people that are living life on purpose. And I think a lot of people just go through autopilot, watch a lot of TV and they're on their phone a lot. And they're they're just kind of living life one day at a time with the decisions that you know, the the previous, you know, the past person. So Caleb a year ago made a decision. I'm just kind of following that out. So I think the the intersection, that's kind of the popular trend, trendy term, but the Venn diagram of people that are living on purpose, that have had some kind of a transformation, and that are able to sort of engagingly share that on a podcast, I think is a pretty small number.

David Chung  
Yeah, which makes you like, appreciate the, you know, 20 some odd guests that we had this season. It's been remarkable just hearing brand new perspectives. And I feel like we did a pretty good job like getting a diverse pool of guests and getting different voices on the show.

Caleb Roth  
Yeah, and going back through and listening to every episode, at least, like I said, 10 to 20 minutes while traveling this past weekend. I was like, man, we had some great guests, and even even just kind of going back through I was taking notes again, while I was listening, and there was some really powerful points that could really transform your life if you just put one or two things into practice. And I'll share my themes as well. David already took one but that's the concept of frameworks and a framework the way I would describe it is a free aim. So it's a way that you view the world oral view or an idea that makes sense to you. And then the emphasis is that it works. So again, all of this stuff is great. But if you don't put it into practice, then a habit, you know, want it, it's not a habit unless you're actually doing the thing. But your life doesn't change unless you change your actions or your thoughts or your mindset. But typically, it relates to actions. So a frame that works is every one of our guests has a story. And they probably have multiple frameworks that have helped them live a better life or live more on purpose or more intentionally. And when you find something that works for you, I think it's sort of our duty as humans to share that. And that could just be sharing it with a friends could be sharing on social media, it doesn't really matter where, but I think it's your duty to say, hey, this was my life before this habit, or this framework, or this way of viewing the world, here's my life after. And it's almost like a multi level marketing scheme is like you owe it to share it. And then someone else can sort of take the same principle and go, Yeah, I'm gonna try that, oh, my gosh, it works. And the ones that sort of catch on and then begin to spread, sort of create a movement, maybe a cult, maybe a small religion, whatever you want to call it. But I think a framework is kind of an interesting way to look at it, almost every nonfiction book is somebody's framework for making sense of the world, and how to improve their life. And so that's been the really cool part of this, you know, we thought, I thought, when we started out, we kind of neatly chunk it into buckets, like finance, and health, and business tips, or whatever. And in reality, every guest that came on probably shared a half dozen to a dozen frameworks in terms of how they've made sense of the world, how they apply something that's helped them, and then sort of encouraging others to follow along. So I love that aspect. The second piece that stood out was definitely the value of being proactive, and living life on purpose. And we'll try we'll have to try and get this guy on. I met him at an entrepreneurship conference, but Justin Donald's runs a lifestyle investor, he's got a podcast as well. And his podcast is built off the exact same premise and meeting him and talking with him. You know, he's big in money and trying to set up investments that can lead to passive income. But his whole thing is most people live life on autopilot. They don't make intentional decisions. And so just meeting him, he challenges us or listeners, I want to say users because I'm from the software world, but he challenges his listeners after every episode, you know, stop, before you move on to the next podcast, write down one thing that you can put into practice today, based on what you just heard. And I'm just reminded of that is like, Man, if I go back and listen to these 2930 episodes, there's so much value packed in, but the value will never find its way into my life unless I actually do it. So that'd be number two. And then we got to have number three, because you can't have two main points, it's got to be three, I think a trend that came back up. And one thing I've really appreciated with these, and I'm gonna go back and do it with with some of the guests I haven't yet is, I'm a type seven on the Enneagram, which means I like to do lots of things and have a wide range of experiences. And so I would rather go to a new restaurant and go to one I've already been, I would rather read a new book than reread an old one. And I think this conversation came up between you, Matthew and David in person, but it also has come up with a few of the guests is the idea of going back and rereading a book. And to me, it's like, well, I've already read the book, I've already gleaned some insights. And I had some really good books that have sort of changed my life, like Profit First, the one thing I Will Teach You To Be Rich, there's, there's so many great books that have been impactful. And I've been challenged, and I haven't done it yet, even things like atomic habits, it's an incredible read. Well, I'm a different person than I was when I read that book, you know, two or three years ago. So if I were to go back and reread it, or in some cases, like with our guests go back and re connect with some of these guests, and I do that some of them are my friends already. Some are becoming friends. It's like Man, there's there's 20 Plus incredible humans that we had on the show. And if we just keep blazing ahead, go to season 234. And just keep trying to find new guests. It's almost a shame because we have an incredible humans right in front of us, that we can engage with and learn from and continue to build relationships with. So that's been a really solid piece not only being proactive, but pursuing depth, not only in ideas and books that have that have impacted us in the past, but then also with people and I've been able to reconnect with several guests already. And I'm looking forward to continue to go deeper with with many of you now, so

David Chung  
you've got me sort of spiraling down and Enneagram rabbit hole right now and I was searching up type seven, which is what you are, and I saw type sevens relationships with type three which is what I am And it says, this can be an extremely volatile couple. Almost too much electricity under one roof.

Caleb Roth  
No, did you ever feel

David Chung  
that Matthew, too much electricity?

Matthew Osborn  
Too much electricity in the room at all times? Oh, yeah. Wait, so your number three day that I pulled

Caleb Roth  
up and try to look at it? Yeah, and I know you already.

Matthew Osborn  
If I did a while ago, I forgot what it was I logged on and took their like, test not too long ago to see because I could remember. And I don't know if I was sleepy or what but whatever I answer I got I was like, Nope, that's not right. Like showed it to joy. She's like, nope, not even close. I just answered some random question wrong or something like that. So no, do that.

David Chung  
That's type 10. The Sleepy personality? The

Matthew Osborn  
Sleepy personality type? 10. Yes. Yeah, there. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't I don't know. For some reason. I've I don't remember. I thought for some reason I was three, but I don't think I am. I forget what it was.

David Chung  
What do you guys think of these? I don't want to get too sidetracked. But what do you guys think of these personality assessments like Enneagram or Myers Briggs? Are there a handful of them out there?

Caleb Roth  
I love them. And I heard an analogy, I forget where I wish I could give credit where it's due. But they said there's only so many personalities, whether that's Myers Briggs, or StrengthsFinder is or an EEG there's, there's tons of them. And I think what they do really well is they, they kind of describe what type of tree trunk you have. So there's only so many types of people like you might be of someone that likes like, likes to help other people, or you're trying to perform at your most efficient self or you like, there's only so many desires and personality traits that are out there. And so there's the core traits, which would be called the trunk. And then there's infinite possibilities in terms of how your branches and your leaves and your twigs develop. And so I think it's really helpful to have a rough idea and go, Man, I'm a helper of people. So when it comes to trying to pick decisions, I want to generally stay in that vein. But in terms of how I show up in the world, I think there's infinite possibilities. But I do it does help to know that you're an oak tree versus a sycamore tree.

Matthew Osborn  
Interesting like that. I think they're a really good starting point. I think like personalities in general are a spectrum. But I think if you look at a spectrum, and think of it like this, there's definitely little pockets people can fall into. And it definitely helps know, if you're over here and someone's way over here, doesn't mean you guys are going to perfectly fit everything in there. But it is a very good helpful starting point to know where somewhere on the spectrum you guys are, even though it's not going to be like a perfect fit every single time for everyone. I think they're really really good tools for genuinely Jen, generally getting the concept of how someone relates other people and how you relate to other people. And then how there might be some of those disconnects, especially in relationships and employee employer relationships, anything like that, where there can be tension in a relationship, which is pretty much all relationships, it helps to know where the other person roughly might be coming from. And so I think these tests are really good for that. I don't think they're an exact science, but I think they're really good for that. And they get you close in the ballpark of where people are, which I think what they should be used for. Yeah, for sure. I don't really I took the test a few weeks ago, I was number one they gave me I really don't think reading that description that that accurately fits well. But it gave me a number one when I took that test. Like what is what is so strict perfectionist?

David Chung  
I don't know, man. I feel like

Caleb Roth  
that resonates? Sounds like yeah, for sure. Look at look at five I think that may be a better fit. And I'm by no means an expert. But I just know other fives that sort of remind me of you.

Matthew Osborn  
The quiet specialists, I can see that.

Caleb Roth  
So again,

Matthew Osborn  
I do I agency five,

Caleb Roth  
demon. I like personality stuff. It's fun to sort of dive in. We actually did that a bit with Jeremy and Steve on the five voices and the communication Oh, they kind of break it down. And again, my mind always goes well, that's, that's so cool. There's five things, but there's probably six or seven or eight like we're not, it's kind of hard to chunk humans into one of five, you know, rough family trees or traits. So I think it can be I don't want to say dangerous, but it can be misleading to sort of depend on it. And just, uh, well, I'm a seven. So that's that's an excuse for all my actions. I think it's just a decent starting point to help you become self aware and know your tendencies and your patterns and then sort of have have have some language to describe yourself. But then ultimately, you're not just a number, you're not just a series of letters. You're a human with infinite possibility and infinite beauty and so it's a, you know, it's a chance to understand yourself but then to sort of lead a life anyway.

Matthew Osborn  
It is weird though. I feel like with personality tests, you see this a lot like everything in life is a dichotomy to some some point but we are very unique and different, but yet we're not as unique and different. You always think like you said, Caleb, people do generally fall into different categories. I think it's everyone kind of has an eye opening experience, the first time they do one of these tests, one of the good tests for these, and then you read the description, and it's like, man, someone jump inside my head, like, I couldn't even describe myself this way, like you read through these sometimes. And you're like, this is actually extremely accurate and sometimes even answers questions you didn't know about yourself just reading through, like how these people relate to other people like, Oh, that makes sense now. And so we are all different. We all are all unique. But sometimes I don't think we're quite as different and unique as we think we are. A lot of people do generally fall into some pretty specific categories. I think these are pretty good at pulling out some of those sometimes.

Caleb Roth  
You mean, I'm not a special snowflake?

Matthew Osborn  
You are your own special snowflake? Let me tell you, right. So I want to go back though, to something you said Caleb not to get too off track, but something you mentioned about how people figure out these habits and routines and frameworks in our lives. And I liked what you said, it's almost our duty to share these with other people once we discover what works for us. And I really liked that. And when I was kind of thinking about the same concept this week, we were doing, we have a weekly, like small group we meet with, and this week, we're reading through First Corinthians and was talking about the gifts of the Spirit and the different things that each person is kind of the gifts that they're given. And I don't know why I read this, I read this verse a lot of different times and read the gifts the spirit a lot, but it kind of hit me a different way, this time where I read through, and it's like wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, and I started thinking about those. And for some reason, I've always thought about those gifts is like anywhere to gifts, like that's a gift for me. But all of those gifts only work if there's something you have that you're sharing with someone else, like counsel does no good if you have the gift of counsel, but you keep it to yourself, it only helps if you're actually going out and serving others or counseling others all these different things. And it relates back to these habits, like having great routines and stuff like that if we're not sharing those and helping other people. We're not really being near as constructive as we could be. And near is beneficial for society as a whole. When we find these things that work these frameworks, these habits, I really do think duty is the right word, it's our duty to share these with other people, and to not hold these in for ourselves. And so I really liked it, all of our guests have been willing to do that put themselves out there share what they've learned and share these for other people. And I know people get tied up in numbers a lot, it's easy to see social media posts with a million views and stuff like that. But we've talked about this with our past live streams is sometimes we're disappointed when we do a live stream and see oh, there's 31 people on watching today, like it was only 31 people but you think of a room of 31 people. Like that's actually a decent decent amount of people in one room and think about four people actually listening to what you're saying. And one person actually putting into action. Like that's a huge thing, even if it's only 30 people in the room. And so thinking about all of our guests and the frameworks they've shared and the habits they've shared. And all of the people that have listened to these episodes, if even a handful of people put those into practice, that's a pretty big difference in the world. And we look at the long the grand scheme of things. And so yeah, that was eye opening, I like to you call that out talked about our duty to share we've learned I think that's a really good way of putting it.

Caleb Roth  
I think the more true it is or the more it resonates or the more it serves people, if there's demand for it, then those are sort of the ones that blow up and become a best seller book or a best selling blog or whatever that may be. And again, it is hard to look at stuff when you go in the the number of views aren't there the likes or the clicks or the actions aren't aren't gonna be what I'd want them to be. But I think like, David, I've talked about this a lot, even when you're not there. Matthew is how do we follow our curiosities, and we make it something that we love to do. And if we do that we're genuinely passionate and curious and excited about what we're doing, then the results kind of just take care of themselves. And when you can decouple or disengage from the results, I think that frees you up to do some of the creative work and crafting something that matters. Yeah, that's good. Well, as we wind down season one, I do think it's interesting. And I know history doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme. And the books and bourbon podcast we did back in the Amazon days went 30 episodes. And our first season of Stacking Habits, we're going to put a pin in it here and wind down after 30. This is technically episode 29. But we did lead off with episode zero. So that puts us right at 30 weeks 30 episodes. And I don't know what it is about 30. But that just tends to be our stopping point as the three of us. And as we do that we are going to take a brief pause, we'll also be making a change, and one of our members is going to be stepping away. So Matthew, Matthew

Unknown Speaker  
voted off the island. It wasn't a vote.

Caleb Roth  
If NFT voting was in play, we would have voted to keep you. You know, we talked about having a diverse team and I think Matthew, David and I do have different Enneagram is but I think we're very similar in a lot of ways in terms of how we approach other people and how we approach interviews. And Matthew, your skill sets and what you bring to the table and I think you are what was the phrase you used on any GRANT five a quiet.

Matthew Osborn  
Oh, what was that phrase

Caleb Roth  
was, but that was spot on client specialist,

the quiet specialist, you do a lot of things so well from editing and SEO and you tend to ground me at least I tend to go off with 30 ideas and want to try them all. And you're very practical and sort of rein me in. So I really appreciate you talking about the spectrums, I think you're on a very opposite side than me. And I can speak for myself and probably David, to say that you really help sort of round out our team. So you're going to be missed greatly. I do you want to share a bit because I really appreciate the thought that you put into it. And it was hard for you to come to that decision. But you want to share a little bit about that just with the audience, because I think that framework and sort of how you recognize that it was time to make a change. I think that might resonate with people listening. Yeah,

Matthew Osborn  
absolutely. Thanks for those kind words. I did hear that you said I was on the spectrum. But other than that, thanks for the kind words. The kind words, but yeah, so it was it was a hard decision to make, there was a few things that made me make this decision. Number one is something that we've contemplated from the very beginning. And we knew from the very beginning is like three hosts for a podcast is a lot. So that's something we kind of all knew going into this. We kind of had it for books and bourbon, too. And then going into this, and three hosts, especially in a remote setting just a lot of people to have on one thing with guests, especially if there's two guests, and then five people in the room and try not to talk over each other. And so for the whole time, I've known that my mind like three hosts a lot. The other thing that kind of stuck out to me, and this is probably the biggest thing that made me make this decision is that even though I can enjoy listening to remote podcasts, and even though I like hearing different guests and their opinions and stuff like that, being on a remote podcast, and doing interviews remotely just doesn't resonate with me near as much as it does in person. And I had the kind of hard realization that if we hit our numbers, we wanted to if we had hundreds of 1000s of viewers. If I was doing remote interviews every single week, that'd be something I would look forward to and be happy with. And it was just not something that really appealed to me, especially because coming on to point number three, when we were doing all these episodes, one of my favorite parts of these episodes was kind of sitting back and listening to David and Caleb connect with our guests and relate to them and ask great questions. And so often, I found myself as a listener on the podcast, sitting back listening and forgetting to even chime in because I was having so much fun listening to the podcast. And so I think David and Caleb, you guys have an extraordinary gift for connecting with guests for finding great guests for interviewing them. And like I told you guys, if you guys ever want to move to Phoenix and do an in person, podcast, we'll build a studio, I'll build it in my backyard, we can do in person episodes, I would love to do that. But I just thought it was time especially coming up in the end of this first season of Stacking Habits, I really want to focus in on one thing and devote all my time and attention to that. And I just knew it wasn't going to do podcast at this point. And so that's why I chose to step away and like Caleb and David, run with it and really take off from here.

Caleb Roth  
Thanks for sharing that. I know that's it's hard to put you on the spot and share that. But I really respect your opinion. I know that wasn't easy to arrive at it. And I just got back from the Berkshire Hathaway shareholders meeting. Charlie Munger passed away earlier, I think late last year in December, and he was 99 Warren Buffett's 93. And so it was one of those things. I went and saw LeBron James, I've seen Tiger Woods, you kind of want to see the greats in your day. And it was a chance to go see Warren and see how he thinks and how he answers questions. And it was really interesting. He said two things that really stood out, they had nothing to do with business. And one of them really applies to what you just said, there was like a 27 year old that flew in from Thailand to attend the conference, flew out like, flew 20 plus hours to be here at the at the event. And he was asking some questions. And one of the pieces of info or advice that Warren gave to him, he said, above all else, follow your curiosity. So if you're loving something, you tend to get lost in it, it doesn't feel like work. Just do that thing. Like whatever, whatever direction that takes you. And so I appreciate that about you, Matthew, where you're being self aware enough to go man, you know, not that I not that I hate doing this. But it's there's something that doesn't quite feel right doesn't quite jive with how I want to show up in the world. And being self aware enough to admit that and then say, Hey, I'm going to do something to change it, even if it's awkward, even if it's hard to say this to my friends. I really respect that. The other thing he said doesn't necessarily apply here. But I thought it was it was really interesting. He's, you know, eighth richest man in the world. I think his net worth is about 120 billion, give or take 10 billion. And the most important thing he said at the very end of the conference, he said guys, everybody out here just be kind Tim Ferriss wraps up every episodes of his podcast the same way he says Be kind kind to yourself kind to others. And Warren said the world doesn't need another rich person. That's great if you can get good at money and figure it out. The world does need more kinds people. And you're going to change the world more by being kind. So I just want to say that as a braised listening, we're this will sort of conclude season one. And David and I are going to take a little bit of a break here and sort of figure out all the missing pieces that Matthew is going to leave behind here who's going to edit and how we're going to go about it. But I just want to leave that piece of advice is one. If you found anything that resonates from the show, or even from this episode, write it down. And then by all means, put the darn thing into practice. Because again, ideas are everywhere. They're cheap. I would say execution is really one of the only thing that matters. And then two is Be kinder, kinder yourself, kind to others. And I think if you do that, and we all do that, then this podcast becomes worth it.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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