Kicking Off the Relationship Series | Ep 19

David Chung  
The last day I thought I was literally going to die on that mountain. And, you know, I really had to trust the guides and the people around me to carry me on. And so I think putting yourself in stressful situations like high high stress situations definitely speeds up sort of that bank of trust collection.

Caleb Roth  
Welcome to the Stacking Habits podcast with your hosts, David, Matthew and Caleb, our mission each week is to dig into the habits, rituals and routines of guests who are living life to the fullest. But remember, knowledge without action is worthless. So be sure to take what you hear and put it into practice. turn these words into words in your own life. Without further ado, let's dive in. Welcome to Episode 19 of the Stacking Habits podcast with your hosts, Caleb, Matthew and David, this fingers crossed will be a slightly shorter edition, and we are going to be kicking off a series on relationships. So we sort of teased that at last week. And this has been something we've been discussing internally. But we really wanted to take a hard look at relationships. And really for two reasons. One, our guests that we had back on Episode 12, Andrew Hart is the CEO of a school. And it was really interesting, they had 12 habits that the school digs into. And as we as we dug into those habits together, he said, Really, the whole goal is not really performance, we're not trying to get certain grades or pass certain metrics. Our whole goal is to intentionally cultivate these habits, so that we support their relational lives. He said everything is about relationships. And it's about healthy relationships, in their words with God, others and themselves. And so we started thinking about this concept. And then I had a cold outreach on LinkedIn, from the head of partnerships at Marco Polo, which is a messaging app. And she recommended she's like, Hey, I'd love to come and talk through relationships, partnerships, and how you know, people can use Marco Polo to strengthen their friendships. And so those two seeds of an idea sort of melded together. And that kind of inspired us to kick off the series. So we're going to be looking at those three categories, for sure relationships with yourself, how you talk to yourself, some habits related to your own health, mental health, physical health, etc, we're going to be digging into relationships with God and higher beings in the universe. And then of course, relationships as we typically think about them, whether it's the three of us as friends, whether it's a partner, whether it's a lover, whether it's competition, employees, you name it. So it's pretty hard to go through life without having some sort of focus on relationships. And really, as we dive into this, I have two words that come to mind, and one is aware. And the second word is care. And I want to develop a whole bunch of other rhyming words, but we'll stop with those two. So aware, step one in anything, if you want to change your behavior, you need to be aware of what is out there, what is possible, and identify some sort of gap between a desired behavior and a desired goal that you want to get to, and your current state. So that's awareness. And that's kind of our goal as we dip and dive all over with different topics here on the Stacking Habits podcast. The second part, and we can't force you to do it's not really our goal, but you will never change your habits, you will never change your life, unless you care deeply enough, unless you notice that there's some sort of a desire within to change your state, nothing's ever going to change. So again, the whole purpose for us of running this podcast at least for me, I can't speak for the other two, Yahoo's here. But the the main purpose for me is I want to have listeners come in, and then make practical decisions and take practical action take steps to actually change their life. And so there's a huge emphasis on being practical here. And that's what I'm really excited. So as we as we dive and uncover lots of layers, and maybe explore some relationships that you've never even thought about, we want to hopefully extend your circle and broaden your horizon of awareness. And then we'll see if you decide to care about certain of these relational habits that we get into, and ultimately change your life. So with that, ultimately, that'd be that'd be amazing. If we change lives, that'd be a really good series. How long will this go? We're not quite sure this is something that we're gearing up, ideally, eight to 12 episodes, and probably the next two to three months, you'll see a kind of a common thread as it relates to relationships, weaving its way through through the podcast. So we're excited for that. And I know Matthew, You dug up a video that sort of changes the way we think about relationships. Do you want to you want to jump in and play that and then we'll riff off of that.

Matthew Osborn  
Yeah, and play that. Tell me if the audio, this all comes through.

Caleb Roth  
This will be a little bit of a sneak peek of some of the ways that we want to change the way we think about relationships. My

Speaker 1  
parents are both alive. My parents, are your parents alive? How will the parents seven Yeah, 674 Where do they live? Washington, DC? And how often do you see him? Twice a year? Okay. So, most people are like, okay, you know, I have, let's say your parents live to 80. If they had five more years, okay, let's just say roughly, you would say five more years of my parents. But I would say no, you have 10 More times with your parents. If you see him twice a year, you see him twice a year times 510 more times to see him when you start thinking of things like that. Your first reaction is, I want to go see my parents. That's least that's mine. So you change the way you approach and I'm like, I'm gonna go see my parents. Every other month, you know, I'm going to make it a priority.

David Chung  
That was a good clip, I didn't realize how much Jesse Esler reminds me of Matthew McConaughey. Especially with that crazy hair. The scruffy beard going on

Matthew Osborn  
exact wearing a shirt, I think it is Matthew McConaughey. If he took off his shirt, I think you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. So for

David Chung  
sure, I'll be honest, I, I've thought about my relationships like that. I've thought about I remember moving out of my parents house. And I remember thinking that this will substantially reduce the number of times I get to interact with them. You go from seeing them every day to seeing them once a week to seeing them, you know, once a month. And one of the maybe the sad realities of life is that you really don't realize that until it's too late.

Matthew Osborn  
Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's one of those weird things that time is almost like a currency too. And we forget about that, like, we all have a limited amount of time. And I forget who it was, someone had said something about, I think it's a billion seconds is roughly like 30 years. So like, you look at someone like in their 20s or 30s. And they have like 2 billion seconds left to live, let's say that it's like, they're a billionaire in time currency, and someone is 70 or 80 years old, looking at them. The 20 year old doesn't realize how wealthy they are, as far as how much time they have and how many things they can pursue and how much they can do at that time. We think of wealth, specifically just as the dollar amount, but all of us are relatively young still. And we still have a decent amount of time to live if we're living to 8090 years old. And I think it's important to realize that we have time, but it's still limited. Every single day goes by. I know it sounds kind of dark. But I've always wanted to have never done it. But I've wanted to get one of those life calendars where you check off weeks as weeks go by Have you guys seen those before? Where it shows? I think, doesn't Jesse? He has a giant calendar he does each year or the year? Yeah, for a year like the calendar. Yeah.

Caleb Roth  
Yeah, and what you want, but

Matthew Osborn  
yeah, it's kind of almost dark. In some ways. It's like seven years, 80 years, you're seeing like, hey, half my life is blacked out. Now. Now I have this much left. But it also puts it into perspective, at least for me, it does have Hey, it's like, it's not just a day, if I'm sitting down scrolling Instagram for five hours, like, it might not seem like much for a day. But hey, if you're like I don't have this day ever again, it's going and then my days are getting shorter, it changes what you spend time with. You good time to share the screen. Let me share the screen real fast on this image on your guys. And

Caleb Roth  
as you're queuing that up, I think Matthew made made a really good point, like we like to be rich in money. But in reality, being rich in relationships, enriching moments in time is going to lead to a much deeper life.

Matthew Osborn  
Yeah. So on the on the screen here, for those of you that are listening, I've got a chart up. And it shows a few different relationships you have throughout your life, and then the amount of hours per day you spend in those relationships as you go through life. And so an exercise I kind of wanted to do with you guys look through each of these in order and then talk about what's what's significant to pull out of that. And what we can kind of learn from that. So the very first one is parents, siblings and family. It's over four hours a day when you're younger, and then it sharply declines around the age of like, 20 to like 30 years old. And then it stays steady throughout the rest of your life. So it's a huge decline. It's you've gotten a lot in the beginning of your life, and it's a huge decline the rest of your life. So when you guys look at that, what does that make you think of for parents, siblings, and family and how you kind of interact with that relationship in your life. Granted, we're all older, we're all past that 27 year old marks were in the flat period of this chart.

Caleb Roth  
Me and mine doesn't look anywhere like it. So for those that can't see it, the chart starts at about age 15. So you know, mid teens, lower teens, and then it goes up to 85. So kind of a lifetime, but ignoring, you know, the age zero to 14, which Yeah, parents starts a little over four hours a day and then drops in the college timeframe down under two hours. For me, I don't I don't get anywhere near that. I'm like the Jessie. It's our story where my parents live a state away. And they're several states away right now because they're snowbirds. And I only see them three, four times a year. So the idea of even seeing them two hours a day like this chart suggests and that goes for my siblings as well. I don't know if you guys are different with with parents that live closer, but I don't see my parents much at all. And so Jessie's video clip really resonated. with me where it's like, man, every chance I get, I want to be present and soak that up and enjoy it not try and be distracted by work or anything else. Because those are, those are very limited times. My

Matthew Osborn  
guess with this chart is that they ask people how many days per year they spend, like with their parents, they say I visit them one week, a year and like, okay, that's 140, whatever hours divided by three. So it's, I think it's based on that, as we see your parents two weeks out of the year, there, I think they're basing it off of that and dividing it. So it's roughly ends up being two hours a day, but it's no reality a lot less than that.

David Chung  
Yeah, I think it's also how you kind of like what you said, Caleb, like, what your circumstances how geographically close you are with your family, and all these other relationships as well. But in addition to that, it's about something that I'd like to talk about in this podcast, which is the interval or the cadence of meetings, in relationships, whether it's platonic or familial or romantic, just creating these rhythms of meeting. And we've talked a lot about that. I know, we talked about that a bit with Mike McCarthy. But you know, I look at this chart and it drops off, I would say like, for me, it probably stayed pretty high up until my 30s. And then it started dropping off. And really, what I'm trying to do now is figure out ways to increase it, right? That's one thing that we don't see in this chart really is like, a lot of relationships increasing, or time spent increasing, except your time alone. That's kind of depressing. And partner. Yeah, that that does go up ever so slightly, too. So

Caleb Roth  
a lot of these makes sense, like time with children is going to peak kind of in your 30s, as you're having kids, assuming you have kids around the age of 30. What's interesting to me is the alone time starts a little under four hours. And by the end, you know, late 80s or mid 80s, when the chart cuts off, presumably death, the load time is approaching eight or even even exceeding eight hours a day. And so I think there's this mentality that if you live a rich life, if you live a full life and are well connected and have good business partners, and friends and family, kids and grandkids, then theoretically in retirement, you'd spend more time with people and less time alone. So that that's the part that is kind of sad. And I guess a lot of people spend their time in nursing homes or on their own. And they are disconnected from reality. And I'm reminded of the comment from Brad Rubin, Dale, I think our episode six guests. And he said connected people do good for themselves in society. And disconnected people are isolated people are doing the opposite. So that's just kind of resonates with me. And that's that's kind of a bummer. And just a reminder, if you do have grandparents or great grandparents or some older people around, be sure to spend a little time with them. The part on this chart briefly, I know this is about relationships and connections, doesn't have screen time on here. And I think the average screen time now in America is pushing four to five hours a day just on your phone. That doesn't even count for TV. So you know, you talk about being connected to people and the rhythms and those relationships. And I think that'd be really interesting to plot that over a lifetime as well.

Matthew Osborn  
Yeah, the screen time would be an interesting one. Because most of the time, the screen time on our phones is not necessary for us to live. It's not like our most time it's if I look at my screen time, it's not going to be 90% of work related is going to be mostly random entertainment, random things like that. So we can steal back a lot of that time, which in some sense is encouraging because you can look at that time on your phone and be like, hey, I can gain an extra 18 hours this next week if I limit my phone time. But like David said, If you establish a cadence add something in there that's an easy way to steal back some time monitor your habits and your screen set aside a goal how much you want to steal back and then where you're going to place that time instead. And I bet all of us if if we think we're too busy do have enough time to reach out to the parents more and reach out to siblings and connect with that friend that you've had since high school we just spend that time other ways right now that are probably not as needed.

David Chung  
Dude, I was thinking test.com matches against you guys you know two birds one stone you get your username Taleb

Matthew Osborn  
true at my son's my son's account to you guys can play him see how Yeah.

Caleb Roth  
That's a that's a no win situation. Because if I win, I feel bad for whipping up on a kid. And if I lose, I feel really bad because I got hooked up on by a young kid. It's

David Chung  
a no win situation. Matthew,

Caleb Roth  
do you have the odds of premature mortality slide you can throw up there

Matthew Osborn  
and pull it up real fast?

Caleb Roth  
I'll kind of tee this off. So part of the question why bother with a series on relationships? It's you know, of course relationships are sort of everywhere. You could argue that by the time we lump in those three categories, your relationship to yourself to others and that's a God that That's like, I think we've accounted for everything that's probably, you know, 100% of our of our time we are relational creditors. But what's interesting is, and I follow Scott Galloway or Prof. G, for those that have followed his podcast, and he talks a lot about kind of a loneliness epidemic. And one of the studies he referenced was a Istat. It's a it's kind of stacks up several things. Do you have that there, Matthew?

Matthew Osborn  
What does it look like? I'm seeing tons of different ones all give different data. No, I

Caleb Roth  
think I sent it in Slack.

Matthew Osborn  
I can resend it. Oh, you sent it. Okay, I was looking at. I can pull up slug.

Caleb Roth  
As he as he pulls that up. So if you are not watching on YouTube, we do have this on YouTube as well. You can search Stacking Habits podcast on YouTube, and it all of our episodes are there. So if you do want to see our lovely faces, and especially those of our guests, by all means tune in there. Of course, we know that the audio version is nice for most of you. So we'll try and describe these as well. But as he's, as he's teeing that up, it's really interesting the odds of premature mortality. And there's there's a couple culprits on here that you'd expect, like air pollution and obesity and physical inactivity, then things like drinking six alcoholic drinks daily, which sounds like you're perpetually on a cruise ship. That's that's also bad. The next worst one is smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day. And then the last one, there is lacking social connection. So lacking social connection, according to the US Surgeon General said social isolation is associated with a 29% increase in the risk of heart disease and a 32% increase in the risk of stroke. So social isolation, lacking connection again, Brad's comment is worse than if you smoke 15 cigarettes a day or drink six alcoholic drinks a day. So that that just puts into perspective, how much that matters and how much being alone can be a struggle. So that I see that I know, Scott's talked about that as well. And then Matthew, go back to the other one. And just to the left. Yeah, it's interesting. So in 19 93% of Americans said they had no close friends. So they were to report that they have no dear friends or close friends. That's only 3%. Fast forward to 2021. That's now 12%. And it's even higher. For men, I think it's 15% for men, 10% for women. So one in seven men report that they have no close friendships. And, you know, I feel very fortunate to have more than that, I consider both of you close friends. And we've shared a lot of life together over the past several years. And I can't imagine not having that. So that is why I really want to dig in to habits.

David Chung  
I was just gonna say, these stats if they if they're true. It's kind of an awkward, awkward chat here, because that means probably one of us doesn't consider the other two close friends.

Caleb Roth  
Well, we'll do an offline double blind survey after this call and see, see how we see how we respond. I wonder how

Matthew Osborn  
many people have close friends that are co workers. And if that's a very common occurrence, I'm curious if that stat has anything to do with like the major rise in remote work and people working from home and not working with the same people every day all day. Like if you looked at that other chart that I shared about time you spend with people, co workers and time spent with coworkers is not an insignificant amount of time. It's like one of the most time you spend with people throughout your life. What if that has anything to do with it? Or if most people's close friends have absolutely nothing to do with work at all? I'm not sure just

Caleb Roth  
to fall at. So again, it's a very loose general term. It just says close friends. How would each of you describe that for me, a close friend would be somebody that if I got in trouble, I maybe not jail trouble. But if I got in trouble or you know, something bad happens, I would call them and want to share that. And you know, whether they can help me or not, I just want to share and let somebody know, because I know that they care about me. That's probably how I would define it.

Matthew Osborn  
I've got something for this actually got this email. I get it every single week, the guy that I have shown you guys before Chris Williams, and we watched one of his videos. He actually has three minute Monday email came in today and actually had this exact thing kind of on it. He had interviewed someone. And a friend had recently asked who his best friend is. And he said he wasn't sure it's a bit of a rare question after the age of like 12 years old. The question was then asked differently. Who do you have the least amount of filter with when you're around them? Which kind of reframe the question of what you can as a close friend or best friend? And another good question here is who can you sit in silence with and not feel the need to fill the void? Like people you're just comfortable around people you can just sit and be with and not feel like oh, I've got I got to talk back and forth. I got to make this interesting people that you feel like you don't have to have a filter around all the time, I think are two interesting ways to see how many close friends that you have. I think we all have friends where it's fun to get together but it's also not necessarily relaxing. We kind of have that filter on we kind of feel like we have to initiate conversation. We don't want to be boring. but we also have those friends where it's just second nature and natural to be around them and to be with them to spend time with them. I think that's a good for me, that's a good analogy for what a close friend would would be, in my estimation,

David Chung  
I think you nailed it on the head. Katya and I, we were watching Love is blind, the new season, over the weekend, and we're just examining some of the relationships, if you're not familiar with the show, the premise of the show is both males and female enter into these blind pods where they have the opportunity to talk to each other, but not see each other. And after a few days, they have to determine if they want to get married. And they then leave these pods and then have to experience the real world real family, friends, jobs, what have you. And that's where you see a lot of these conflicts and arguments arise, you know, these diff differences. And one of the interesting things that I noticed is in several of the relationships, you know, the relationship seat, it seems okay, but one weird thing is like, they're unable to have direct conversation, they're, they're unable to have that lack of filter that you were talking about Matthew. And so Katya and I were talking about that a bit. And my theory was that, in order both in romantic relationships, and in friendships, it really comes down to this bank of trust, you won't be comfortable sharing your true vulnerable emotions and feelings to just anyone until you get to a point where you feel that they won't hurt you, you get to a point that you can trust the other person. And really that trust, it takes some time to build up. It's not something that happens overnight. And so when I think about friendships, I don't know about you guys. But when I you know, list my top five friends on on my hand, these are people that I've known for 1010 plus years, that I know that maybe we don't have the same political views, maybe we don't have the same interests anymore. But we trust each other to a point where we can have unfiltered conversations, and we can just sit in silence because we feel so comfortable around them. I think that's a really good point. Yeah,

Matthew Osborn  
I feel like there's ways people expedite that to naturally, like think of alcohol, the war, or alcohol, I wasn't the alcohol. I'm seeing more like all the war movies, you see how you have guys that have never met each other before. But they get caught, they go into battle with each other even for like a day, two days. And suddenly, it's like the closest friend they have because they've experienced something with them. And they've gained a level of trust, like you're talking about David so quickly with that person. But I feel like I also see this in physical activities you can do with people help you get to know someone and trust them, even if you're not talking a whole lot. Like I bet if I paired you Caleb with a random person and said you guys are both never trained for a marathon but you have to finish one today, you guys are together, go do it. Like if you guys finish that together, I don't care who it is, you probably are going to have a closer relationship with that person. You're gonna trust them. It's just your experience something together, you went through a hardship together even if it was for one day, like that like them again, or you never want to see him again. One of the two could go either way, I guess I would just associate

Caleb Roth  
them with the massive pain of a marathon.

David Chung  
I just I just keep thinking about Kilimanjaro kala when you and I climb Mount Kilimanjaro last year, and with your brother, his friend, and then a gal named Krista. Oh, and KJ can't forget KJ Yeah. And like Matthew, you're exactly right. We're, we spent maybe 10 days together with these guys. And and for sure it expedited the level of trust, like, I mean, I, the last day I thought I was literally going to die on that mountain. And, you know, I really had to trust the guides and the people around me to carry me on. And so yeah, you're absolutely right, I think physical activity or putting, putting yourself in stressful situations like high high stress situations definitely speeds up sort of that bank of trust collection. I agree.

Caleb Roth  
And kind of feeding off that just to kind of close the loop. The aspect of you know, a benchmark of a close friend is in my in my way is if you can spend three or four days or maybe an entire week. So for example, David you and I not only shared you know, six people on the mountain, but we shared a tent together. And you know, there's a lot of times when you're just exhausted at the end of the day and you want to chit chat and talk business but you're also just content to just be and just to exist in each other's presence. And I think if you can sort of get through kind of that summer camp mentality where you're there for a full week with your best bud or close friends. If if you can still want to spend more time with him, when that week is over, I think that's probably a really good element of being a close friend. Because it's easy to be transactional sit down and share coffee for an hour or dinner for 90 minutes. I think that's pretty natural. And we're used to having those type of conversations, it gets a lot harder when you spend that much more focused time with each other.

David Chung  
Absolutely. That's sort of a good segue to something I wanted to share briefly, which is talking about sort of the mechanical aspect of relationships. This is something that I employed a few years ago, when I realized that religion relationships, it's about getting along with other person, it's about feeling comfortable around them, you know, trusting them, but it's also about investing the time. And I would argue and say that you can't, you can build relationships to look any different way. Like it'll look different for each and every one of us. But one thing that all relationships have in common is they have to be based on some element of time spent together, whether that's virtually or in person. And so one of the things that I started doing a few years ago is starting to build these different cadences into my different relationships, whether that's weekly meetings with my fiance, or date nights that we scheduled out, that's pretty common family dinners, you know, once a week, that's pretty common to but another thing that I started doing is, every month, I have a happy hour for folks in my industry in the local area. And, you know, every month, I set up a time and a place and we meet up and in the last, you know, year of doing that, we've been able to build some really cool relationships and friendships and conversations around that, again, like going into it not really going into it as friends, but like more. So again, sort of like trying to hijack or hack my way into this relationship. And just like, if you just put sort of like Kilimanjaro, if you put people into a place together for long enough, they end up becoming friends. And so anyway, I don't know if you guys have any sort of like, mechanical elements to some of your friendships. Caleb, I know, you like reaching out to people periodically. Yeah, I

Caleb Roth  
haven't, I haven't really, we've talked on off and on about building a software tool for it. But one thing I tried to do is as people popped into my mind, and that could be like Google Photos shows your you know, here's your, your your five years ago, here's what you were doing. I've got a note on my calendar, the day we somebody Kilimanjaro last March to message all of you. So some of it is is intentional. Other times if somebody pops into my head, like Mike McCarthy did the other day, I'll just send them a text and maybe a funny photo or something that caused me to think of him. And those little touch points really matter. And they just kind of keep you they keep you connected. And it shows Hey, you know, I had this thought so often we think of other people in our friend groups, and it's just easy to go, you know, I wish them well. And it's just one extra step to take out your phone or send them an email or do something. So I'm not the best, I don't really have it structured or mechanical to your point. But I've tried to teach myself and to hone that skill that when I do think about it, that to go one extra step and actually do something with that thought.

Matthew Osborn  
So yeah, I don't have as far as friendships outside the home, I don't have a whole lot of structure in place with that. Nor do I necessarily always feel the need to I've always been someone that's felt very content, having a few close friends, and that I don't feel contented with that I'm not someone I feel like I need to I have a lot of different friends and a lot of areas that just never been something that's I've been extremely drawn to. But I do have some systems I try and set up as far as like relationships with joy, my wife and my kids and more recently trying to do an activity with one child each I do activities on my kids every single day in some way, shape or form. But like for instance, I had been spending two days playing chess with the truant, he'd been wanting to learn that and everything like that. And so I scheduled a time with each of my daughters to teach them checkers one day was going to be Riley's turn to learn I'll sit with her and spend time with her the next day was at Eastern and I for these like little events, I set my phone in the other room I try and just have that one on one time. And structuring time with my spouse and kids that way I think helps a lot and you get a lot better at it than I do right now. But kind of setting those things were just like you said, David having time but also purposeful time, not just time around someone not just time in the same room as my kids, but purposeful time trying to get to know them trying to spend time with them. I think having those cadence has definitely helped me get better at it. But that's what I try and do right now. That's This Week at least has worked pretty well doing that with my kids.

David Chung  
Hey, Matthew, let me let me ask you a question. I don't want to put you on the spot. But like, do you guys does your family go The church every Sunday. Yeah, I would say that's like one of the oldest cadences and relationships. Yeah, I want to talk about where

Matthew Osborn  
you go to church every Sunday, we do serve at church as well. And so I think when you serve a church, you, at least in my opinion, get closer to people than just going to church, because you're going to church, you're also serving and doing something with those people. And we also have our small group we go to so that definitely is meeting with people each week. And I do, as the past eight weeks have been doing a book study with some guys, not a religious book study, just a book study with guys. We've been a 530 in the morning, every Tuesday because no one has an excuse to 530 in the morning. So we meet at 530 in the morning and do a book study together. So I do have events like that that are weekly in jujitsu, I don't know if you have made good friends, David at jujitsu. But for me, it's the same three, four guys, every single time I go to jujitsu three days a week, three hours a week, at least I'm spending with the same 234 people. And so I definitely get exposure that way, as well. And so I don't know, maybe it's because I have all those things built in, I don't feel the need to go and call people and make different things and try and schedule appointments. I just, I've got it. I feel filled with those events, and then other times want to stay home and be with my family. Do

David Chung  
those are the best? I would argue I'd say those are the best mechanisms are the ones that are just frictionless and seamless. And you don't even think about like the fact that you were like, I don't really have any kids. And you just like listed six different times where you're meeting with different people. And so I

Matthew Osborn  
guess we schedule it just seems normal and natural. It doesn't seem I guess, yeah, you can skip over that when

Caleb Roth  
I think I think your friend group also really factors into how you approach life. And so Matthew, you're saying I don't feel the need to connect with friends in Florida and Texas and Michigan and all over because I've got my family that I feel really connected to. And I've got, you know, people at jujitsu and local book clubs. And that sort of scratches that relational itch, if you want to call it that. And I think that's that's perfect. My mind, I love to be a I joke and say dot connectors, Steve Jobs had this great quote about, you know, connecting the dots looking back in life, you know, it's hard to hard to connect dots looking forward. But when you look back at your life, you can see patterns and see rhythms. And so I like to view myself as a dot connector and a people connector. And I know David, you're, you're way better at it than I am even. But I like to look for patterns. And the more data points I can I can sort of assemble that allows me to see patterns and see some trends. And so I get fulfilled by having a scattering of connections, even if they're very small touch points. And so that's something that gives me energy and helps me feel connected in the world. So that's what I pursue. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, we did promise to keep this a short episode. So if either of you have final thoughts, I can sort of land the plane here, I

David Chung  
just have so many thoughts about this subject. And I'm excited to learn because I think that relationships is one area that the the more time you put into it, the more fulfilling and enriching your life will be. And so I'm just looking forward to this whole series. Yeah,

Caleb Roth  
likewise. And, again, our intention is to find intentional guests who have an impactful life, that's really our criteria. And so we're going to be diving into and you just heard three slightly different versions of what it feels like to be connected and to have deep, meaningful, rich relationships. And that's just what the three of us and so we're looking forward to, we're going to follow our curiosities, and sort of bob and weave through a variety of, of relational things. And again, we're going to be talking about relationships within whether that's emotional, mental, physical, we'll talk about romantic relationships, we'll dig into the family, we'll dig into coworkers and employees and competitors and donors. I've got a donor lined up from a college, his whole job is to go out and ask people for money. And so he's very relational. And of course, people understand that he has an agenda. And so we're just going to dig into all these. And again, find habits that you can be aware of, and decide whether or not you care about them. So tune in every week as we kind of uncover a different angle on the relationship network. And we're excited. We hope you are two and we'll catch you again next week.