Setting Guardrails - Brad Reubendale | Ep 6

David Chung  0:00  

How did you and Brad connect Brad and I connected? Boy, it was probably back in 2018, it was around the same time that you and I connected actually, Caleb, and around that time, my sister and I, we started a nonprofit called 5050 books. And our mission was really opening up access to books to everyone in the community, regardless of you know, what they could pay or afford. And we actually partnered up with different community organizations every month and donated 50% of our proceeds to that organization. So, hence the name 5050 was like half for us half for the community. Love it. Ultimately, that was not the most sustainable financial model. But one of our partners was SAME Cafe. And the thing that really attracted us to Sam cafe was that their mission is very similar to ours, which is again, providing access to healthy food, primarily plant based, but just really healthy seasonal food, regardless of people's ability to pay for that food. And Brad has been the CEO of St. Cafe now for what, seven years?

Brad Reubendale  1:16  

Six and a half. Yeah, that's wild. Not long. Yeah.

David Chung  1:20  

So we actually connected I made my way down to St. Cafe, we had a really nice lunch and the food was like, not to offend anyone is like, surprisingly good. Like it was shockingly good.

Brad Reubendale  1:32  

I get that all the time. People are like, wow, Brad, the food's really good. And I'm like, yeah, now I run the place, but I don't cook. So I hire good chefs, but the food is genuinely exceptional. Our thing is, is the food needs to be restaurant quality, delicious, where people would want to have the food. And then we happen to have this great mission on the side. And then we have this participation based model where people can volunteer your time donate what they can or get produce in exchange for a meal. And yeah, and what David and his sister were doing was so similar, but for books, and I've had background and literacy as well. So I've done like literacy programs and just working with kids a lot. So I was immediately intrigued by what they were doing as well. So it was a good partnership there for a while.

David Chung  2:15  

That's incredible. We read just just out of curiosity, how you know, I know it's volunteer, but you know, a lot of it is participation base, you receive a lot of donations. As far as produce goes, How do you manage the quality control of the food

Brad Reubendale  2:34  

with a chef on site every day? Oh,

David Chung  2:37  

yeah, I guess but with like, so many variables, right. You know, like the volunteers for that day and the produce, like, how does that all staff

Brad Reubendale  2:46  

to we just have a lot of volunteers as well. So there's five staff that run each of the two cafes, because now we opened the second cafe. Last year. It's actually November 4 is our one year anniversary there, and it's in Ohio, Toledo, Ohio. It's

Caleb Roth  3:02  

not fun for me, I'm in I'm in Fort Wayne, Indiana. So it just really,

Brad Reubendale  3:06  

yeah, you should go over to Toledo and check it out. It's the food's really good. It's a it's a great place. But anyway, we have about five staff who run each of the cafes. So there's an executive director, Executive Chef, a cafe manager, and some, like hourly employees to help out. So that's the main core. And then the rest is as we engage a lot of volunteers. There's like five levels of volunteerism. So there's like, you can walk in and exchange a task for a meal, you can sign up for a one to three hour shift, you can adopt one of those shifts every week. So then you become a core volunteer, so we can train in some deeper stuff. Then we also do internships with high school students and college students. And then we do a year of service through kind of an AmeriCorps type program, but it's there's two of them that are religious, and they send their their young people over. So they're like 40 hours a week, full time, but we don't pay full time. It's kind of

David Chung  4:00  

Yeah, yeah. Now now, Brad, you didn't start saying Cafe but it sounds like you joined pretty early on.

Brad Reubendale  4:06  

Is that right? No, I joined 11 years in so it's been around. Wow. 10 years? Yeah. 10 years. And I guess I went to SAME Cafe when I was homeless because I got kicked out of my hole. Like I had the weirdest life of anyone I've ever met. But I was a pastor for many years. And then I got fired, excommunicated and experienced homelessness for about a year after I came out as gay. And I lost everything. And I had heard about this cafe where I could go and get meals. And I have I've hypoglycemia, so I have like really low blood sugar. And if I don't eat every couple of hours, I will get really sick. And so I had lost access to healthy food. I went there as a guest because I knew that no one would ask me about my experience to get food. You know, most nonprofits you have to fill out an intake form talk to an intake worker and all that. So I went there specifically because I knew I wouldn't have to be asked about anything and then I had this beautiful full circle moment in 2017, where I got to take over as the executive director, and now the CEO of the parent organization. So all may eat where we have the two cafes, and hopefully more cafes in the near future.

Caleb Roth  5:12  

So how did you go? What did that? How did you go from being there to the executive director? Sorry.

Brad Reubendale  5:20  

Yeah, so I was a well, I had a master's degree and master of divinity, which is always fun. From a very conservative seminary, I think they wish they could have their degree back. But I was a pastor How to Master divinity had staff I was running a program, you know, I was on my way to being a senior pastor. And so I had experiences, but then I experienced homelessness, because I lost my support network and income and all that. So pretty quickly, I was able to get my feet back under me in the nonprofit sector. So I kind of translated my experience in the religious world and to nonprofit work. And I got a job working as urban peak, which is a youth homeless organization, because I wanted to work with other LGBTQ youth that had fewer supports than I did. I never had to sleep outside because I had had couches, I could serve, I had people that I had a car. And so I wanted to help other youth. And then pretty quickly, I just started interviewing every single human who was an executive director or CEO. And I was like, if you'll talk to me, I have five questions that if you'll give me 15 minutes, I'm going to ask you, every one of them. What did you do before this? What's your education background? What was your work? You know? What was your passion? And why do you do this? So I just started interviewing everyone and realized I needed another Master's. So I went, got a master's in nonprofit management. And then I needed fundraising experience if I wanted to be an executive director. So I went and got those two things, and then started looking for executive director jobs. And I saw the Berkey is Brad and Libby Berkey are the founders, I have the same first name as one of the founders, which is kind of funny, because when I first started, people would be like, Oh, I've talked to your wife. And I was like, never had one of those Never gonna run through here. But But I found out they were leaving. And I said, I really want that because it helps me when I was at my lowest point. So I'm passionate about it. I've been on both sides of that counter now. And I think that we can grow it, it was such a compelling mission that I thought there should be a same cafe in every city in America. And I think when I started, the board sort of patted me on the head, I was like, Yeah, we believe in you. But let's just get this one going, or keep this one going. And then now we're, we've built a model with same cafe library partnerships is what it is. So we work with downtown libraries to be able to convert their existing cafes into SAME Cafe, and then be able to solve like six problems for a library with an empty Cafe space, healthy food access, access to food for everybody that's in those spaces, a prime location for SAME Cafe, they don't need a lot of revenue for it. So it becomes this really great partnership. And that's the model we're working from now. And that's what we did in Toledo. There's a lot of answer to one small question, but there.

Caleb Roth  7:49  

Okay, so when you interviewed those executive directors, and you had those five questions, did you write those down somewhere and kind of figure out some trends, or you just logged it all in your head? Just

Brad Reubendale  7:59  

in my head? But yeah, that was one of the things is I so my background is comes from very, like Christian background. And there was all this emphasis on having mentors. And I had someone tell me something that changed my life once and he was like, don't get a mentor, just go get mentoring, like, find people that you look up to and ask them questions, almost anyone will give you 15 minutes, if you come with a list of questions, and you just say, Hey, you're doing this, which I think is really cool. So can I come and ask you some questions? It'll take 1520 minutes, but I have these questions. And so I've shifted from trying to find mentors to now if someone's in a position that I respect, I ask them questions, and I come prepared with questions. And now that I'm in the position I'm in, I get that a lot from young people that are like, will you mentor me? And I'm like, No, but if you have questions for me, I will make myself available. And so you come prepared, and you ask what you want to know. And then we'll have a meaningful conversation. And I know this is about habits, so I can share some of those things. But for most of it was I needed to know where were the gaps in my experience in my education. And then also, what was the passion that led them to do a mission focused leadership role? Yeah. So

Caleb Roth  9:15  

you were you had the knowledge of where you wanted to go. Right. You had that intention first, and then you were able to sort of direct your actions to go after that.

Brad Reubendale  9:23  

Correct? Yeah. So David, and I talked about this, I have a bucket list of things that I want to do. One of the, do you want me to just jump in? I can just kind of jump in and share some of these habits. I

Caleb Roth  9:35  

have one or two more follow ups just to kind of close this first chapter. If you

Brad Reubendale  9:39  

don't, yeah. So, yes, of being a CEO. I wanted to be the CEO of a nonprofit. And so I just wanted to ask anyone who was in that role. How they got there. Yeah, love it.

Caleb Roth  9:51  

I'm actually on sabbatical. Right now. I'm coming up on 12 months, the three of us built a software company and sold it in December of last year. And so I forced myself to take You know, at least three months, ideally six and that's turned into almost a year I got remarried, picked up four girls, we're having another one got, you know, moved. So this year has been hectic. It's been awesome. Oh, yeah. But I don't have the crazy itch to get back at it, which I thought I would because I am an entrepreneur, I love to just keep moving. I've got a lot of energy. And so one of my goals was to do essentially what you did there to go sit down with a lot of people have been reading a lot of books, just trying to figure out where do my energies and my passions and my skill sets align, and where can I plug in, but you sort of had that goal already. Right. And one of our goals for the podcast, it is stacking habits, we're trying to examine habits that people can then decide does this fit where I want to go? And really the only criteria for guests. It's not a it's not a terribly complex list. We're looking for intentional people that are building actions that have some sort of a measurable impact. So really intentionality and impact is it. And when Dave shared some of the pre call notes with us, I'm like holy cow, this guy like is the poster child for intentionality. So I'm, I'm really curious to dig into I know David mentioned guardrails. So yeah, let's just let's spring off of that into into guardrails, and then into your bucket list, because David mentioned, you sat down at age 18, and sort of built this bucket list. Was that for the rest of your life? Or was this just 10 years at a time? Let's walk through where that came from? Yeah. So

Brad Reubendale  11:30  

I started when I was 18, someone again, told me randomly, that you should have a bucket list that is are big things that you want to accomplish. And so I dreamed of things that I wanted to do. And I've, I have a lot of trauma in my background as well. So I like had Complex PTSD, I have a lot of anyway, there's that's a whole other conversation. But one of the things is I my list was to accomplish by 30. That was my list when I started. And then I did them all, like everything on my list. And then I turned 30. And I was like, Well, damn, I guess I need more takes up my list. So I actually had a whole moment of transition once I survived 30. And the reason I bring up trauma is a lot of people who've been traumatized as children believe they'll die young, that's a common theme. And so when I outlived my expectations, then I started to build new things. And so now I just have a running bucket list. And every year, every decade, I sort of check them off and say, okay, that lives here. Now, what's the next thing? And it gives me a sort of every 10 year moment to dream about my future. And it's, it's interesting to look at my list because it's not a career trajectory. There's not like the one thing that as always driving me. So when you asked me, Did I want to talk to CEOs of nonprofits? I did, because that was a goal of mine. And now I've done that. And so now I have different goals. So now I have different group people that I'm trying to, like, connect with and talk to. But that was one that I checked off, and I feel really happy about it.

Caleb Roth  12:55  

Love it. What are some of those first goals that were on your to do? And you're, you know, by the time he turned 30? Yeah, so

Brad Reubendale  13:02  

on my list, before I turned 30 was to be I wanted to go up the Eiffel Tower, which seemed impossible at the time, as a Missouri kid, you know, growing up in blue collar poverty, wanted to work at a camp wanted to visit all 50 states that was always on the list. So just kind of like a few random small things. But it was interesting, because David pointed this out, I had never looked at it. Because now I have my by 30. And by 40, because I'm 42 now, and I'm working on my by 50 list, and they've just gotten progressively larger. Each decade, I get new things that set me on fire, and I'm moving towards. And so now on my list are things like I want to write a book, I want to work in all three sectors. So I want to work as a for profit CEO as well, at some point. I'm like, there's gotta be owners out there that want my skill set so they can get out of day to day and I'll run the damn thing. So I want to do that. I want to visit 70 countries. I'm at 26 right now. 70 Yeah. 70. That's the goal. Here. You

Caleb Roth  14:01  

have a more a year by the time you finish the decade.

Brad Reubendale  14:05  

Yeah, I probably won't get that done by 50. But hey, I'll get it done before I die. It's although it's also wild. I have a good friend. I fly for free right now. So anywhere that united flies, I can go for free. And so last year, just randomly, I walked on all six inhabited continents because I wanted to. And I was like, I'm just really cool. I can touch all of them. They don't fly to Antarctica, so I couldn't get there. That's a

Caleb Roth  14:29  

bit harder to get to. Yeah, what's the you've mentioned 2026 countries. What's What's your top two or three?

Brad Reubendale  14:35  

The Netherlands? Amsterdam is what is one of my favorite countries, Spain now because I just got back from there. That was my first time ever in Spain. That was incredible. I'd say South Africa was also really it was interesting. It was challenging, because there's so much disparity there in terms of like, racial divide, but it was really beautiful. And that was those were my top three I'd say right now. That's incredible.

Caleb Roth  14:58  

You've got a quote on the websites while may eat it's a connected people do good for themselves in the world, well isolated people damage themselves in the world. Can you explain that and sort of where that came from and how that shows up in your day to day?

Brad Reubendale  15:13  

Absolutely. I, again struggling with mental illness, I mean, I've depression, anxiety, complex PTSD, all this kind of stuff. And when I was homeless, I started what I called, at the time, that human connection project because it was, and it was totally selfish, it was only for me, I needed to have something where I felt connected to other people. And so what I did a few times is I would like, got a table and chairs and went down to 16th Street Mall in Denver, and which is a pedestrian mall. And I set up with a traveler of coffee from Starbucks, and a sign that said, free coffee and advice about anything. And so I would just sit there and like, random people would come up and share their heart and soul. And then we would talk and then they'd go on and never saw him again. But it made me feel like part of the human fabric. And so I wanted, I did those kinds of things for me to feel connected to the world, because I recognize I had been damaged by people who have damaged me, and disconnected me and made me feel isolated. And so the antidote to that is connection. And if I feel connected to the broader world, then I'm going to do good and heal versus damage. And I think everybody is either damaging or healing themselves and others. And I think the more we're connected to each other, the more we do good in the world. And so being able to run SAME Cafe, the last set six and a half years has been an absolute delight, because that's genuinely what I do. You know, when I was 18, I also was on a Jesus retreat, which was interesting, because that's where it came from. But I wrote a mission statement for myself then. And it was create spaces of kindness and see and speak the truth. And the only thing that was at the time, create spaces of grace, but then I've changed it to kindness to be more like, neutral on the religious front. But that has been my driving motivating factor since I was a kid is creating spaces for others that are kind and then also seeing and speaking my truth. And that's been a theme throughout my entire life as well. But yeah, so that's kind of where it shows up is connectedness, and I recognize that whenever I am feeling isolated, I am an asshole. And I'm not nice to myself, and therefore I'm not nice to other people. And so I think creating those connections is really vital.

Caleb Roth  17:30  

Do you have any questions that you ask yourself to ask whether you're feeling connected or isolated? Like how do you check in our last guest had something they called the five gears and that was sort of a framework to just asked herself every time you know, she's kind of feeling disconnected? Is there something that you do where you notice that you're becoming isolated and catch it? Or do you just have to rely on other people saying, Hey, Brad, you're being an asshole, it's time to change.

Brad Reubendale  17:55  

I have the gift of mental illness. And so it allows me to feel off very quickly. When I'm off, I'm I'm way off. And that's a beautiful gift, because it's a indicator that work needs to be done. So I have, this is another one of my guardrails, so I have about four or five of them that are my guardrails. One was my mission statement. One is the bucket list. But another one is I wrote, I consider it a eulogy for myself, like this is who I want to be at 85. Now my plan is to live at least until 85. So who do I want to be, and it's on my phone, and it just says who I want to be. And it's kind of segmented by eight or nine different pieces of experience. So like, socially, this is how I want to show up in the world. Physically, this is how I want to show up in the world, intellectually, emotionally, internal world, external world, that kind of stuff. So there's a category for all of them. So it's not questions per se, but I go back and review that often. And so an example is, you know, me too personal

Caleb Roth  18:57  

to ask you to read that. No,

Brad Reubendale  18:59  

I'm happy to I, I don't really have a personal life anymore. Like, if you know my name, you can find my whole story out there. So that's what it is.

Caleb Roth  19:09  

If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to hear it. And so you mentioned eulogy. Is this from like, loved one's perspective? Or is this how you want to be seen,

Brad Reubendale  19:17  

I see it as my eulogy. But it's, it's how I want to be seen. So it was, it's more like who I want to be. And I don't want to peek when I'm young, I want to peek when I'm dead. You know, I want to, I never want there to be the peak that then goes down. I want to like keep going. And so my aim is to peak at 30 at 85. Because that way, I'm constantly working towards that end goal. So for instance, there's something

Caleb Roth  19:45  

you're afraid of with the with the peak in the I used to call it parabola rising to a math term, but you basically build a standard, you know, distribution curve. And I kind of have this fear. I'm very extroverted very, you know, like people but People come and go from your lives interests Wayne, you know, I collected bourbon for, you know, two years. And now it's like, I don't really care anymore. So I've seen that that happen over and over and over again. And I'm trying to figure out, is that just my personality? Or is there some way I can do something that just builds consistently versus, you know, flaming out and flickering off?

Brad Reubendale  20:18  

That's a great, you're asking so many such good questions. I love this will. So that's why I have my bucket list because they're big things. And I recognize that at some point, I'm going to be done with the nonprofit world. And I don't need to do that, again. I don't ever need to redo any of the things that are checked off, although I did get married twice. So I have two checkmarks. By the married one. I like gay marriage so much. I did it twice. And then also, you're not divorced. Are you really trying? I don't think so. That's my stance. But in that bucket, so not to interrupt this should get it right the first time. But so for me, the bucket list is that because then it always whenever I get bored with something that I'm looking at the next thing to say, okay, there it is. That's the next thing that I want to be working on. But the who I want to be list is more about my character and how I show up in the world. So for instance, it's I want to be emotionally integrated, able to pour myself into relationships and create spaces for myself, to have consistent deep relationships that are mutual and healthy. So that's like one, that's the emotional self. And mutuality within relationships is a big one. Because so much of the world that I came from, it was all set up with hierarchy. And like having mentors and a pasture and all this, I don't know, it was just bullshit to me. And so for me, having mutuality with my relationships really matters. And also not to set myself up above others, but instead mutuality. So that's one, I have one that's I want to be healthy and active, walking everywhere and regularly working out for the meditative and health benefits, eating healthy food and cooking. So that I want to be vocationally engaged, I want to balance social life, I want to engage natural curiosity, I want to be sexually whole, I want to be creative, a person of charity and to cultivate an inner life. So those are the nine or 10 things. And then I have a sentence that describes what that looks like. So when I'm off, I will often visit that list and I'll be like, Oh, I haven't engaged my natural curiosity in a long time. It's a, I'm feeling that void, or I haven't expressed myself creatively in a long time. And so I know that all of those things are kind of the segments of what it means to be a human person, I think. And for me, especially if I'm ignoring one, if I'm not working out, or I'm eating shitty food, like it's gonna, it's gonna make me fall it fell off track. So that's my version of the questions that you were saying from your last guest is visit that often. I

Caleb Roth  22:43  

love it.

Brad Reubendale  22:44  

And did you build that team? No, no, that was something that I did when I was in seminary with someone who called themself my mentor. But I had a different view of it. But he considered the he had this like schema of the eight segments of humanity of being a person or something like that. But it's like emotional life, social life, vocational life, sexual relational life, that kind of stuff. And so we did some work and each of those, and then I've sort of built on it. So the ones that I've added is being a person of charity, being creative and cultivating an inner life, that he had emotional, physical, vocational, social, mental, and sexual. I think those were the ones that he did. That's amazing. Yeah, it's

David Chung  23:28  

really fascinating. Yeah,

Brad Reubendale  23:30  

go ahead. I was gonna say I liked dreaming about, okay, when I die, this is what I want people to have said about me. And so I need to be doing those things and working towards them. Now, if that's what I want to do. Yep.

David Chung  23:42  

No, it's really fascinating, analyzing the parallels between our last guest and you. And just again, it doesn't matter which framework you apply, but just having access to really be introspective and analyze yourself and where you're at. It seems to do wonders.

Brad Reubendale  24:03  

It certainly has for me, because it's rare that and like I said, I call the these all my guardrails. But it's rare that I don't, that I feel often can't review one of these, and it helps me find the gap and fill it and move forward. So the mission statement, the bucket list, that I have a thing, a practice of making a list of 25 things that have given me a sense of accomplishment, I was

David Chung  24:28  

just gonna bring that up, because I remember we talked about it, and I was just trying to list it myself. It's pretty damn hard. It's really hard.

Brad Reubendale  24:37  

But I'll come back to that in a second. But then also, then that's like who I want to be list. So those are the things that I consider my guardrails to my life. So when I feel a bit lost or out of sorts, then I kind of review those and say, okay, am I am I actually engaging with the things on my bucket list, or have I already accomplished and now I'm sort of spinning my wheels, or am I off with one of these like categories of being up person that I need to do. And then the mission statement just kind of lives there. But it's continued to be true for me. The 25 things is really fascinating. So I, whenever I have a young person, like a high school student, or college student that asked me for input and advice, the first thing I have them do is write a list of 25 things that have given them a sense of accomplishment. And the hard part is I did this when I was 20, I think was first 21, maybe first time I did it. And the first 10 are easy. You can find 10 things that you've that you've done that you feel accomplished by. But then you really have to dig deep to figure out what the whole list of 25 is. So you do the whole list and then review it. And you look for common themes. So the biggest eye opener for me, that happened the first time I ever did this. And by the way, I do this in any transition. Like when I'm ready to transition, I It helps me understand how I live and how I exist in the world. So the first time I ever did it, there were two things on my list that would never have, I would never have registered as being similar one was I had been, I'd let a gospel choir at a Christian camp I worked at, I was in a gospel choir in college. And then I worked at this camp, and I was like, I can teach these white kids how to sing some gospel. So I did. And it was interesting, because I was teaching them each the parts. And then when we performed, everyone was like, you know, okay with it. But then when we performed, they came back like glowing. And they're like, Wow, we didn't know we could do that. Like, we had no idea that we could actually do that that well. And I was like, Well, I did. And there we are like that was the whole point. The other one that was on that list was I created this leather journal cover. I think I have it up there somewhere. Yeah, it is. It's right up there at the top. But it's a leather journal cover that has like, it closes with a pin and you can like change out the paper in it. And so I went and bought raw leather, and I cut it and I stained it. And I sewed it together. And as I'm doing it, everyone's like, what are you doing? This doesn't make sense. And then after I did it, they were like, wow, you should make these and I was like, I already did, I don't ever need to make another one. I made one once. And so what I've learned from that, for me is that I do best when I can see a future that doesn't exist yet and bring together the component parts to make that happen. And check it off. But I never need to do it again, once I don't need to run a gospel choir or acquire or even be involved in music. Like I don't even care that much about the music part of it. It was the fact that I could like Bring these pieces together. I don't care about leather work. But I had an idea that I wanted to create. And so I did that. And so that's ultimately, and st Cafe What's so funny. Food was never even on my top 10 list of passions, food access food justice never was. But I saw an opportunity. And I saw a future that could be developed there. And now we're putting that into place. And I'm reaching that moment now where I'm kind of like, okay, I either need to see a new future there. Or I can check it off and hand it to someone else who wants to sustain it. Because I don't need to be the one that's sustaining it, I already did it, I built the thing. I also had the youth group that I used to run as a pastor is still using the exact model that I created. And I found that just 15 years ago, they're using the model that I created that was kind of based on mentorship and relationships. And I was like, most of the people involved with it, have no idea who I am even anymore. But it's running and I'm like I'm so proud of that. I love seeing that. So for me, I now know that that's a way that I exist in the world. So I would never in a million years, consider a job where I was like making even if it was making a million dollars a year wouldn't care if it's just sustaining because it's not who I am, I got to see a future and build something towards it, I would never consider a job that would be where I could see couldn't see a plateau like beyond the plateau of it. So it's given me a lot of insight that 25 things into how I function. And so I require every young person that I'm talking to, to do that list. And then we review it. And I'm like, Okay, let's get a picture of how you exist in the in the world, so that you can continue to build on your accomplishments versus be frustrated by something that you're miserable, and that you're not good at and that someone else would be great at. So when

David Chung  29:01  

you I'm just curious, if you don't mind, I'm just curious, it sounds like you've run this experiment with are pretty much this 25 things that you're most proud of? It sounds like you've done that with many different young people. Yeah. Have you noticed any sort of common thread or commonality across all these young people?

Brad Reubendale  29:22  

No, what's interesting is, is that it's it's very personal. And so when I'm working with a young person, what I want to come away from is just the list of three or four things that drive them, so that then they can pull out of the subject matter of the things that have given them a sense of accomplishment. So for instance, if you had a if you're a soccer coach and you love that, you might think wow, I want to be a soccer I want to be involved in soccer in some way. Maybe, but like you might get distracted by the soccer when in reality, it's about the mentoring relationships that you're able to have. So you need to build a life where you have plenty of mentoring relationships, or it could just be about like transferring skill to someone Nelson, you have no desire, you don't care about kids, you don't care about soccer. And so what makes you feel the sense of accomplishment matters more than the subject matter. And so for me, it's getting people out of the narrow lanes that we put ourselves in by saying, Oh, well, I'm good at this. So I have to do this the rest of my life or I want to have it. My dream job is to be this like, soccer. I keep using that stupid example. But but get out of the subject matter. Instead, say, what is it that makes you feel accomplished about that, and then get a sense of what it is how you individually exist in the world.

Caleb Roth  30:32  

So when you I guess, the reason of listing out 25 things most of the time, our basic question is, what do you do? And who are you and we list one, maybe two things, and it's very narrow. So I love the fact that doing 25 things forces you to really kind of expand the depths of who you are. When you do that, how do you get to the thing behind the thing? So you mentioned soccer, but it's actually I love mentors, or I love believing in the next generation, do you end up seeing like one trends across those 25? Or do you see two or three? Like, how do you? How do you get to that? Yep,

Brad Reubendale  31:05  

it's almost always two or three things that is kind of lives behind that. And for me, like when I did it for myself the first time and have consistently had this, it's seeing a future so visionary, it's also pulling together component parts, like seeing disparate parts of how it could fit together, and then bring those together. So these are two different themes, but they're, they're adjacent. And then inspiring people is another big one, like what I do, the only skill that I have really is getting people excited about what I'm excited about. I have no discernible skills, I can't cook with a fuck, and you know, I run restaurants. But my only skill is getting people excited about it. So inspiring people seeing a future bringing together disparate, disparate parts. That's what makes me good at what I do. And so I have to make sure that wherever I am, I'm able to do those things, whatever that is. And there's actually a moment where recently I kind of did this again, and I realized, oh, I have not been using my perspective out there and inspiring others very much. Like that was something that I missed from being a pastor. It's from what I missed. And so I started taking more speaking gigs. And I started doing things like this, this podcast, because, for me, sharing what I've learned, in a sort of public setting is part of what makes drives me. And I've noticed that with young people, there's almost always about three things that will surface that will say, okay, these are the things you like organizing things, great. Let's make sure that that's part of whatever job opportunity you're looking at you like, you know, XYZ, so I'll usually kind of try to find out what the three major things are that they are. And to get the thing behind. The thing is by seeing the commonalities between when someone has two very different things on their list, I'm so intrigued. I'm like, why? What made you happy here? And what made you happy here? Because I guarantee you there's a common thread, but they're very different things leather working and leading a choir, you know,

Caleb Roth  33:02  

and I love it. Absolutely.

Brad Reubendale  33:03  

I can keep talking. And I'm gonna, great,

Caleb Roth  33:06  

I've got your bucket list up here. And I'm kind of gauging through it one thought that came to me too. You just did. You said two thirds of the Camino de Santiago. So that is like a walk mostly through Spain. And that's like the, like the St. James. Like, it kind of leads to James's burial. Like round, right. So what what led you to do that? And then I have a thought or two on James as it relates to habits, but just walk us through. It's just you're walking everywhere, right? Yeah. What was that led to that? And

Brad Reubendale  33:36  

what is it for those that may not have heard about it? So one of the things that I rec recognize it really hit home was when I went through my first divorce. I say, first of all, as if I'm going to have another, hopefully I stick with Michael, but keep him on notice. I love that man. But no, when I went through my divorce, I healed from that through walking. And then I also healed through walking through a lot of my PTSD and all of the intense trauma that I was experiencing. So for me, healing in general has been a very embodied experience. It's yoga, it's walking, it's now I work out like an absurd amount just because I'm gay. So it's a thing, but also, I just like it. I like physically moving my body. And so walking has always had an almost spiritual overtone. And then I heard about this, like, the Camino, Frances in the community, Santiago, by the way, there's like 40 caminos, that all converge on that one spot. But the main one that most people think about is the Camino, Frances from say, chumpy Deport in France, to the communities on or to the Compostella de Santiago, which is the Cathedral of St. James. So the minute I heard about and this has now been 15 years ago, I was like, it takes 35 days, but I want to do that at some point. And I'd kind of set aside this time to do the whole thing. And then for unrelated experience, things that I'm not going to talk about I had to stop early, which was kind of tragic, like I had a moment where I had to grieve it, and come back early and now I'm gonna go finish it. But yeah, that's That's why walking is a bit spiritual even though I'm not a spiritual person anymore or don't consider myself religious, certainly maybe somewhat spiritual.

Caleb Roth  35:14  

I think spiritual and religious are very different. Yeah, when you're walking, I'm assuming you don't have podcasts or music blaring. Is it just you and your thoughts? Like, what does that setup look like?

Brad Reubendale  35:24  

So there's a The Purists say, you have to do a silent, I'm not a purist. So I'm like, I'm going to enjoy this anyway. So I, it gave me a chance to listen to books, sometimes I'd be in my own head, sometimes I would just be in the same place with someone and talk to them. So I kind of let it unfold as it was going to, but I chose to do it the pilgrim way where I didn't have plans for where I was going to sleep each night. So you come up on a town, and if you're tired, then you can kind of pull over and there's a albergue A, which is a hostel, and then you go in and they open at a certain time, and you have to wait in line and you can't get reservations at them. Some people will plan it out and have their like, they know where they're going to be. There's a hotel, but I loved doing it, because I just sort of fell into a rhythm with a certain group. And then by the end, probably about 25 of us, that was my Camino family. And we were all sort of going the same route. And we were on the same, like text thread. And so it gave a lot for me was the community experience there. But I did listen to music. Sometimes I listened to podcasts, sometimes and, and books. And then I decided I was going to start doing again, the creativity and the inspiration thing, I started making videos, tic tock videos, which is stupid, but I did it anyway. And I was like processing my religious trauma, while walking this thing. And so I got I think I posted maybe 10 or 15 of them. But it was really fun and had a lot of engagement and people enjoyed it seem to enjoy it anyway. But it was me kind of talking through my trauma and why what I'm experiencing here and how that relates to what I used to believe versus what I believe now and why I identify as a gay theist, which is mostly a joke. And so it's been it was really fun to kind of do that as both like an downloading from my mind as well as feeding my mind through the experience. Yeah,

Caleb Roth  37:16  

it occurs to me the coffee thing that you did back on the 16th Street area that would have been made for tick tock, although I assume that wasn't the goal. It was really it was

Brad Reubendale  37:26  

back then. Right. The other

Caleb Roth  37:29  

thing, the reason I love like the apostle James, I grew up extremely conservative Baptist, Bible cuisine, national champions, baby. But I love James, he's incredibly practical. And the whole point for us in doing stacking habits, these habits are the building blocks, and what you do isn't necessarily who you are, but it's a pretty damn good proxy for who you are. And one of the things James says he goes, you know, be doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving yourself. And I lived in my head up until the last probably two years, I've finally started being aware of oh my gosh, I have a heart and a body. And there's way more to me than just a brain. Yeah. And I love that concept. And that's really the whole goal of us doing the podcast, is we want to interview intriguing people, interesting people, but also present this sort of menu for listeners to hear and say, Hey, that doesn't apply to me. I don't want to do it, or oh my gosh, I want to live my life on purpose. But at the end of the day, if you don't do anything like you can have this cool idea to go walk the Camino. And if you don't do it, who cares? It's just an idea living in your head. And so practicality is really what we're all about. And I think that's really what you're all about. So,

Brad Reubendale  38:39  

it is my it's so funny. My email signature used to say pragmatic idealogue because I believe that ideology is the dream of the future that doesn't exist yet. But then if it doesn't apply itself right now, our practice, not our theology, but our practice, what we do right now matters more than what we believe. And this is something that I studied in seminary, I have a, I find it delightful to talk to either Christians or former Christians because I have all of that language. I consider myself multilingual, because I can still speak it even though I don't necessarily practice that version of it anymore. But I love that about James always have about like, if you're not doing this, then you're not doing it correctly. You don't actually believe it unless you're doing it. And I think looking at people's actions is where the rubber meets the road as you as you just said, I couldn't have said it better that well done. That's

Caleb Roth  39:35  

phenomenal. So I'll just drop a little plug right here. If you're listening right now, and anything is stood out. Take a moment pause the episode, write something down and actually go do it. Go implement it. I think the one that stands out to me would be write down 25 things that you feel accomplished and share those with the loved ones. share those with a stranger pull up a you know, a carafe of coffee on the street, if you want to be like Brad, but do something. So again, it's so easy. There's millions of podcast millions of YouTube videos, information is plentiful and cheap and prevalent. But actually pause this right now and write down something and then go do it. That's my challenge.

David Chung  40:13  

Unless you're driving, then just keep driving.

Brad Reubendale  40:15  

Pull over, you could pull up, because because lawyers Yeah,

Caleb Roth  40:21  

don't don't go sue us if you get any kind of damage. Exactly.

Matthew Osborn  40:24  

Brett, Brad, you've seen like, you've had a lot of thoughts that over the years of your life, you've organized really well. And you've not only organize them, it seems like you've always put pen to paper, and then kind of almost create a framework for you to follow that you can very easily like you've shown us teach other people how to do that as well. Have you always been a more organized person that needs to write things down and have structures like that? Or was there a time in your life where you were unorganized? unstructured? You saw a need for that, and you kind of created those habits to become more structured in your life?

Brad Reubendale  40:53  

That's a great question. I don't, I'm not sure if I can fully answer it, except to say, my I have mental structures that that I've resonated with. And my my world, my internal world is constant chaos. And so I sort of like have the privilege now of being 42 and have lived a bit of life to be able to see what is it that's helped me get to here. And so I think I'm probably like, plagued by being constantly self analytical, which helped me build some of those structures. But I would say, I don't consider myself a very structured person, actually. And these are all internal structures for me. Not that external. In fact, usually on the daily, I will disrupt my life on purpose, because I need it to feel alive, because I feel dead if I'm doing the same thing every day. And so what's funny is that it does sound quite structured, doesn't it? I guess I I call myself chaos, like I am chaos, kind of as a person. And so it's interesting, because, yeah, these have become structures. But I don't know that I ever set out to create a structure. What's this

Caleb Roth  42:08  

trend has emerged? Matthew, you've kind of pointed this out in me. But it's also shown up in some other guests that we've had where some of the most seemingly structured and disciplined and organized individuals would say, I don't view myself that way. And I just am noticing that trend. I don't know what it means. But I'm actually intrigued by that concept. Well, it's

Matthew Osborn  42:27  

like you keep bringing up Caleb and other ones too. You're like Jocko willings, book discipline equals freedom. And oftentimes, through these discipline structures, we're able to have a lot more freedom in our lives and flexibility and creativity, if we're able to be disciplined in the main structures that we have for ourselves, I think, yeah,

Brad Reubendale  42:43  

it's interesting. I, again, had someone who I received mentoring from telling me when I was in college, that discipline has the effect of, of spreading. So if you, if you develop discipline in one area, you have discipline in other areas, and that's always resonated with me. And so my thought is, is I need to fall in love with the things that make me thrive, I think of it more in terms of thriving, but if I fall in love with the processes that make me thrive, then I'm going to do those all the time. Versus like trying, I guess, I don't really see it as trying, but like, for instance, working out, I love working out, I'm pretty fit now. Like I've really enjoyed it, it's been this, like, interesting journey. But I only started doing it when I fell in love with the process of working out. I physically like moving my body. And so I was like, just gonna go to the gym every day, even if it was for five minutes. Because that was better than zero minutes. And then now I'm going to think I just spent two and a half hours there this morning, but it was like, it's, I wake I don't sleep very much either. Because my mind is chaos. It's so I always wake up at about 3am And I don't I have to wait till the gym opens. And then I think I'll move and actually get some energy out. But yeah, so I think that's such an interesting question. But I don't see myself as structured. When I got this free travel benefit. I told my husband I was like, just so you know, I'm gonna go to Europe for lunch just for the hell of it. And I did. I went to London for lunch because I'd heard about a Chinese restaurant I wanted to try. And so I did and it was well experiences. But you flew in grab lunch and flew right back. Yeah, I did end up spending the night there. But um, yeah, no, I did that. And you know, I went to Denver for a haircut. I just sometimes like it, it is not uncommon right now because I still have that benefit. Like, it's been several times where I will get up on a Saturday morning at three because I can't sleep and then I'll be like, I'm just gonna go to the airport and I'll go to New York just to walk around the city. Because I want to absorb the like chaos. I need that energy of chaos around me. But where no one knows me and no one's asking me for anything. And so like on a random Saturday or Sunday, I'll sometimes just go walk around a big city for no reason. That's incredible. I don't

David Chung  44:59  

I don't know about you. You guys, but when, when I was in my late teens, early 20s, and went to New York, there was something so intimidating about it. I just felt so insignificant. I felt like nobody and I, you know, I've been going to New York, Walter, my 20s. And now that I'm 33, when I go to New York, like, I just get a totally different sense from being there. More similar to you, Brad. Like, I really love being part of a faceless crowd and just kind of being able to be part of this bigger thing. And so like, my perspective really shifted from that. I wonder, like, you know, do you do you feel like that's the same sort of energy that you get from large cities, bustling crowds, just like being able to be like, be with tons of people yet be by yourself? Yes. And in fact,

Brad Reubendale  45:51  

this became really clear during the pandemic, I am an introvert at heart, which is wild, because most people wouldn't read me that way. But I introvert in crowds, that's the only way I can do it. If I get it by myself in a room, I just fall into a pit of depression. But if I'm in a crowd, where no one knows me, and as asking anything of me, is where I get my energy. And I really became clear during the pandemic, because I couldn't be around people. And so I would try to introvert in the ways that I normally would I used to, and still do now, I'll go to a busy coffee shop and read, or I'll go to a movie by myself, or I'll fly to New York City and walk around for two hours and come back home. Or I'll go to the airport. I mean, there's a days where I'll just go to the airport just to walk around because I just like need that crush of people. And so that was one of those really eye opening things to realize I need people the bustle of people around me, but I would need to be in my head. So I put on my fuck off face. And I put in headphones. So no one talks to me. And then I just like I It restores my soul in a really interesting way.

Caleb Roth  46:53  

I love it. I love I think sometimes having that stimuli around you does help. I'm the same way. I am an extrovert, though. But when I need to do quiet time, I have a hard time turning off the mind. And so for me, travel sitting on an airplane, same thing i'll put headphones on, I'm not really social on the plane. No, and being in a coffee shop where I don't know anybody is kind of a cheat code for me, because it somehow gives me permission to think and go internally, but still feel like I'm giving that external, extroverted need met

Brad Reubendale  47:23  

that wonder if there's like something

David Chung  47:24  

deep within the human condition that needs that because like, it's the three of us, I don't know about you, Matthew, but like, literally just putting my headphones in and walking around town and just like seeing people. And I just wonder like, you know, we as humans for, you know, generations, we grew up in tribes, and we grew up in villages with all these people around us. I just wonder if that's something that's just been hard coded, and all of us where we just feel the need to be around people. So random wonder was like, go ahead.

Matthew Osborn  47:54  

No, sorry. I was just a random thought I saw this experiment the other day they did with people about sleep. And two random sound effects that made people sleep deeper words, the sound of a crackling fire and the sound of snoring dogs. And they think it's because a long time ago, that's what our minds associated with safety is if as long as the fire is still going, or the dog is gonna look out and type thing. I'm curious if it's the same for our minds, that we somehow feel safer when we're around a group of people. So we can let our guard down and think through things. Whenever, by ourselves. We have more of those kind of reptilian mind things where it's saying Be on the lookout for danger type thing, and you can fully, almost relax. I don't know if that's a real thing or not. But for some reason, I almost feel like somehow we might feel safer in a group of people. And we can kind of let our guard down more and think through things better.

Caleb Roth  48:43  

That's an interesting hypothesis. I'm gonna bring back Brad's quote from earlier connected people do good for themselves in the world. And I think a big part of it is we are connected. I don't I don't it depends on where you follow religiously, spiritually, whatever that may be. But there is some sort of common bond that we share as humans. And I think, you know, maybe for you, Brad, just being in a coffee shop, or, you know, there's the phrase alone In a crowded room. Usually, that meant is a bad thing. Like you can't connect. But I view that as like, Hey, cool, I'm connecting with myself and you feel safe. Well, just like the snoring dogs. If the dogs are snoring, then you know, there's no danger. And I think the same thing is true if you're in a crowded Park, with people walking around, there's some elements of safety and connection, I would argue. Absolutely, that's been

Brad Reubendale  49:26  

my experience is that I was gonna bring that back up is that for me feeling connected to a group and I love the anonymity of New York City to and it's the same feeling I get when I'm out in the woods alone looking at stars, right, like or out in a big field. I want to feel small, I think it's important to feel small and insignificant, because, you know, I have an ego that doesn't quit. If I wasn't me, if I didn't have the same life experiences that I had, I would be a full blown narcissist. And so I am grateful for the universe for beating it out of me, or God, or whoever is doing this, for beating that out of me. And so feeling insignificant is a really important thing for me. I'm a CEO of a nonprofit, like the world, my world kind of revolves around me. And so being insignificant is really important, I think, for most people's mental health. And that's what I love about New York. It's why I like being out in nature as well. It's insignificant is a beautiful thing. Yeah, I get

Caleb Roth  50:24  

the same feeling. Looking at the stars. That was sort of my happy place in high school. I didn't, I didn't really have an emo phase. But I would listen to punk rock, and just go out lay on the hood of my car and look at the stars. And I got to know the constellations. And it's the same thing. You just look out there and go, we are a speck of dust. And I'm a tiny little critter on that speck of dust. And if that doesn't put you in perspective, I don't know what Well,

Brad Reubendale  50:45  

I listened to History podcast for that reason, too. Because history's like when I think about the history of anything, most people are not remembered. And so I can stop taking myself so seriously. Yeah, of like, Oh, my God, this minute matters so much that I'm gonna latch on to it as if my life depends on it, or the universe depends on I'm like, No, in. Most people don't get remembered 100 years after they're born. Yeah. And that's okay. And most of the ones who are remembered for 1000 years after they're born, we're so like, let's keep it in perspective. Because all I can do then it brings me back to this present moment, because I can say, what I can do now is hopefully bring healing that will have lasting effects and ripple effects past people who ever remember who I am. And that's what my dream is, is that I can create a world that is better for people than the one that I grew up in, which was traumatic and abusive. And I grew up in a cult to that's a whole other thing. We'll we'll talk about,

David Chung  51:41  

safe to say that you think about the Roman Empire pretty regularly.

Brad Reubendale  51:46  

I do. It is so funny. When that became a trend on tick tock. I was like, I asked my husband was like, do you think about the Roman Empire? Because I do a lot like I think about it multiple times a week. And when that happened, I was like, this is weird. I feel like so I was reading and then I asked my brothers, and neither of them think about it at all. And I was like, Y'all are weird. But I did think about the Roman Empire a lot. So love History podcast. So I know a lot about the Roman Empire.

Caleb Roth  52:12  

Well, you mentioned guardrails at the beginning, and I believe we got through all of them. But can we circle back to that concept? Because I think that's what's gonna stand out here as the habit, it's being intentional and sort of setting these guardrails? Can you I think you mentioned five did we get through all of them,

Brad Reubendale  52:26  

we got through four of the five. So they are my mission statement as one creating spaces of kindness. And also, by the way, I do design stuff. So like, I built this and design this like, library that I'm in right now. And part of that is like it just creating spaces, physical spaces matter for me, as well as creating emotional and spiritual space for other people. So mission statement, that list of 25 things, my bucket list items, and then the kind of writing my eulogy is how I think of it, but it's the who I want to be list. The fifth one, which is interesting, has come and gone. And it's currently not here, but it's journaling. So when I was a Christian, I journaled a lot. And it was really, really helpful for me to organize my thoughts. And for some reason, since I no longer identify as Christian, it doesn't resonate with me, because much of my journaling existed as a conversation between me and God. And so it's fallen away, but I circle back to it regularly. And I'm like, I keep trying. And I'm like, continue to do that. I found a bit of resonance by writing actual physical letters to people. So that's been a bit of that. And then also, I look at that, and I'm ludicrous enough to believe that there's probably still something there with this whole, like, godness relationship with God thing that will, I'll probably circle back to, it just means that I'm not there right now. And when I left Christianity, I actually said, Okay, if there is a God, she here, they're going to hold on to me, and I'm going to stop holding on to that. And at some point, I'll circle back to it. And it'll either be still real or not real, but I don't need to, like grasp on to it. But yeah, journaling is the fifth one. For me that has been really resonant in most of my life. But in the last four years, since I now identify as a gay atheist, I don't do it that much. I try. I'd say once every six months, I'll try to see if it resonates again, but it hasn't yet.

Matthew Osborn  54:20  

You seem to do it regularly. Was that like a daily habit? Or just something you'd occasionally do before? Is that something that was like a main staple in your life at one point in time?

Brad Reubendale  54:28  

It was a main staple in my life, actually. And I would say I did it sometimes multiple times a day, but certainly daily, would you

Caleb Roth  54:34  

go back and review what you wrote? Or was it just a way to put thought on paper? It

Brad Reubendale  54:39  

was to put thought on paper and then occasionally go back and review it. It was this may open a can of worms that we don't want to go to but like it was so much of my life as a queer Christian as a queer kid being raised in a cult and then in conservative Christianity and surviving conversion therapy, trying to change my sexual orientation. So much If it was self hatred expressed on paper, that I actually went through a process where I did the whole Marie Kondo thing of holding everything, and if it gave me joy, I kept it if it didn't, I let go of it. And I did that with my journals. So I have have I had journals, I went back till it since I was like 16. And I read all of them, and then burn them off. Wow, I saved six pages. And the whole thing was, for me letting go of some self hatred. And I have yet to be able to reengage it in a way that doesn't have that element of like, hating a piece of who I am to fit into a bigger schema that I was a part of, there was a lot of good that happened in there. But for the most part, it was just this kind of toxic sludge. And I needed to get rid of it. And at some point, it may come back. And if it doesn't, I feel fine with that. Wow,

Caleb Roth  55:48  

that's incredible. So we talked about habits on the show, but really, it's about rituals, routines, and sort of cycles that sort of pop up. So for your guardrails in your own life, is there a rhythm that you follow and checking in once a quarter once a year, just when you feel like you're off or isolated? It's with the

Brad Reubendale  56:06  

bucket list? I'd say I look at it monthly, no, no set ritual, but I look at it monthly. And then with my 25 things, it's anytime there's a transition, or I'm feeling unhappy with my current situation. I'll do that to say Okay, is there something else that I can glean from this? And then the who I want to be list is more whenever I'm feeling off? I'll review that. Because again, I see them as guardrails. And so as long as I'm on the right path, then I'm pretty good. But they're the things that I bump up against whenever I feel like I'm going off track some way. Got

Caleb Roth  56:41  

it. So for people that want to be practical, can you other than the the five guardrails that you mentioned? Is there like a first step? Someone goes, Wow, that's so much information I can't possibly know where to begin. Maybe the 25 accomplishments seems like too much work. Do you have one very simple baby step that someone listening right now can say, Alright, here's the first step toward even just building this tiny framework of guardrails.

Brad Reubendale  57:04  

Absolutely. And I think it's do the make the healthier choice and fall in love with a healthier choice, no matter what that is. So if you're faced with a choice, do the one that is better for you, not the one that makes you feel good right now, but the one that's better for you, and then enjoy it, find something to enjoy in and I go through this on a micro level every time I'm at the gym, because sometimes there's just like, it's legged, I don't want to do legs again. So I'll have to slow down the workout and say, Okay, I've got to find some joy in squats, or else I'm not gonna want to do squats again. And I've got to figure out what is the motion here that I like, I hate everything about this, but I've got to slow it down until I can feel something that I like. Because if I love it, I'll do it. And if I hate it, I do not believe in rising grind. I think it's dumb. You gotta love what you do. And I'm motivated when I wake up to like, find the thing that gets me out of bed. So for instance, this morning, I was laying in bed and I was like, I don't want to move. I don't really want to get up right now. But my mind was going. So it's like, what's the one thing that I'm looking forward to getting out of bed, and it was my espresso. So I got up, I made an espresso. And it got me out of bed and then I started moving. And then then I was off to the gym and all the rest of it.

Caleb Roth  58:16  

That's awesome. Well, Brad, thanks so much for coming on. I feel like we could sit and talk for several more hours. I may have just come home.

Brad Reubendale  58:23  

I would do that. So you let me know because I would do that. That sounds fun.

Caleb Roth  58:26  

Well, we will we will certainly follow up. We'll leave it at that if you have a doubt in what you're trying to do make.

Brad Reubendale  58:34  

Thank you for having me. It's great to meet you all.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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