Sprinting: Boosting Wellness in Every Aspect of Life - Kyle Horne | Ep 4

Kyle Horne

The argument I think for sprinting is its unique and what it can do for the body. They showed that just doing that two to three times a week, it was a total of like six, six to nine minutes of effort showed, I think that was the one that showed 9% more fat loss and cardio, but the kicker was, is that it was 30 times less time spent doing it. And so if you have a family, you know, a longer run is going to cost you more family time, a longer bike is going to cost you more family time than a sprint session.

Caleb Roth

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David Chung

Hey, Kyle, I've got a question. So one of your life points is that you lived in a desert community with a group called the sky gypsies with John McAfee. Is that the John McAfee the security guy? Yeah, he's kind of a wild guy, right?

Kyle Horne

Yeah. Well, anymore. He's dead. But yeah, he Yeah, he he. Yeah, he was on the run from the government for a while. I mean, he's a pretty sure a billionaire. He became extremely wealthy from the McAfee thing. And yes, I just lived he had this little desert commune where these guys they traveled around on if you can imagine a three wheeled motorcycle with wings, they would fly around the desert, and camp out and come back to this little kind of space. He originally formed that I believe as a religious cleansing center. So to cleanse people from religious thought. And so we had some great, great conversations. And yeah, I really enjoyed my time with them. Is it strange? You know, kind of a little bit of a dream. It was a strange situation, but it was, uh, it was fun.

Matthew Osborn

How big was this community? Like, did you know him? Personally,

Kyle Horne

I didn't I just I sent him a message and said, Hey, can I come out and live with you guys? I want to do I want to, you know, I had this exact post college football. And I was just trying stuff. As you saw that list, I was doing all manner of strange things. And so this guy, gypsy group, maybe I can come out there and hang out and I'll run your coffee shop. And they said, Sure. So I found some rideshare and kind of hitchhiked out there. And, and yeah, just showed up. And they're like, Hey, you can you can stay here. And so yeah, he had all these kind of Airstream trailers for people when they would visit to stay. And so I stayed in this, this random Airstream in the desert for a while. I mean, like, pit, like middle of desert, almost like, you know, uninhabitable, but really pretty crazy stars at night,

David Chung

you haven't you? Did you have any revelations? While you were there? Did you know Did you experience anything that it, I guess, changed the trajectory of your life in any way?

Kyle Horne

Maybe not that specific spot. I think it just for me added to, you know, and a lot of those travels, and we can talk more about this, but I think I thought like, I was committed to this idea of adventure, you know, like, I want to, I want to I want to try stuff experienced. And I think that's good. That's that's a good thing. But there's a there's a limit, you know, there's a limit. And for me, it felt like, you know, when you spin around in a circle, you're technically seeing all angles, but it's really not looking at anything. And I felt a little bit like that, that like Man, there's, I can keep exploring and hitchhiking and traveling and have these great memories, and I'm thankful for that. But really, nobody, you know, if you think about it, nobody could count on me. Like, none of my friends could say, Hey, Carl, you helped me move this weekend. Hey, man, can we can we get coffee next week? Like, you know, I had lots of people were good friends to me. But I was not a good friend to those people. Because I was just kind of a traveling ghost. But But yeah, I mean, you know, good and bad. But I enjoyed it. I just my revelation was that I think the real adventure comes in commitment and in relationships, not in, you know, continually finding the next next interesting spot. But

Caleb Roth

a lot of directions we can go with that. But let's do a bit of a formal introduction. So welcome to the show. Kyle horn is a good friend. And someone I really enjoy chatting with. We've met several times over the last few years we you know, of course, crossed over into the book space. But you live in Northwest Arkansas, one of my closest friends lives down there as well. And so usually I'm not much of a planner. But last minute, I'll send you a text and say, Hey, I'm going to be in town tomorrow. Do you want to meet up and usually you do a good job of kind of clearing your schedule and coming out for you know what ends up being a two or three Our coffee chat but I you are one of the more fascinating people I've met in terms of strategy the the variety of things you pursue the way you intentionally live your life and so that's one of the reasons we have you on the podcast today. So welcome to the pod why don't you share just a little bit about your background and then I've got a picture I want to bring up and we'll start from there

Kyle Horne

yeah, great to be here Great to be with you guys. Yeah, yeah, my name is Kyle background you know from from Florida living here in Northwest Arkansas now Mehta Arkansas women enjoy we got we got married eight years ago and three kids now and one on the way and yeah, got a few got a few businesses and and yeah, just trying to trying to keep these kids alive and and try not to go bankrupt. Those are the two big goals.

Caleb Roth

Those are admirable goals. Let me let me share a photo here. I did a little bit of research because I knew what we were going to talk about today. And you probably know where this is headed. But let me let me pop up just a quick photo and see what kind of memories This brings back up for you.

Kyle Horne

Yeah, there we are.

Caleb Roth

I think when I first met you, you actually had a little bit longer hair. I don't I don't recall these luscious locks. But it's kind of interesting reading the bio it looks like a third grader just kind of wrote and trailed off and said a whole bunch of stuff but looks like you were a state champion high school football player. You know, you set some school records for 400 meter sprints or 400. Yard Sprint's I'm not sure which. So a lot of a lot of comments on you being an athlete, one of the fastest players on the team. And we're going to the habit we're going to talk to to you about today is relative to health and to physical health in specific. So let's go back to your days in high school and Wofford College and sort of what role did athletics play? How did you get into that? And how do you think that sort of launched you into where you are today? Yeah,

Kyle Horne

ya know, they played a played a big role for me went to a secular private school in high school, called balls, which is, you know, it's kind of like Sparta, it's one of those. It's one of those schools that, you know, known across the country for athletics and wins all these bests, you know, athletic programs in the state in the country awards. And so I got an interesting dose of what it looks like to really commit to a discipline early on play football, wrestling track, weightlifting team. Interesting, you know, the football team got a ton of clout, because our coach had the most state championships in Florida history, you know, he's he was kind of a legend in the area. But the swimming team, you know, is better than the football team, they routinely would send kids to the Olympics, and then just bring them back to high school. Because we had, we had this kind of legendary swim program. And so this school kind of expose me to Yeah, just just a high level of, you know, sport commitment, I think, I think benefited me. And so from there just because of that, I think, part of that school reputation and the reputation of our coach was able to get a scholarship to play football in college.

Caleb Roth

Now, did you come from a from a discipline background with like, your upbringing, your childhood? Or is that something that you just took naturally to sport with your competitive spirit?

Kyle Horne

I think, I think I, I didn't have an inherent, you know, high discipline internally, I did find a few things that I just enjoyed. And I, it's easy to discipline things that you like doing. And so I did enjoy, you know, getting stronger and faster. I like the measurables of that. And so I was able to discipline myself in those in those directions. And that, that benefited me in football, but I wouldn't say I was inherently just a disciplined kid. Probably still not.

Caleb Roth

So you you know, the Kyle I know today is quite disciplined. And seeing the fact that you played three sports at such a high level shows that you had a high level of discipline, and I would imagine a pretty good set of habits. Were you always that way or take us back even further to your childhood and kind of the formative years? What was your family life like? And where did this love either competition or of discipline come from?

Kyle Horne

Yeah, you know, I have fond memories of the 90s You got you guys are maybe my age a little a little younger. But in the 90s You know, I feel like it was special. Right? You could you you finish school. I feel like we had less homework than kids have nowadays. We'd finished school we play all day. We didn't really have a lot of we had a Nintendo probably played too much Nintendo. But really your parents kind of kick you out and they didn't know where we went all day. You know, they didn't we had to come back with it with the streetlights and on set Other days, we were playing every sport we could find and playing in the woods. And, and so I had, I got to play a lot. And that's something that's a value that I feel like, especially for kids early on, creates a great foundation for discipline later because it teaches them to enjoy sport and enjoy these disciplines that later they can they can use to really commit to kids that specialize. This is a different, you know, topic we can talk about, but early specialization Can, can can really be a detriment to kids. And so, for me, man, just getting able to play exposure to a ton of sports and had just a great crew of of kids to ride around and play everything we could find. We set some things on fire to, you know, instead that was probably, you know, that's not a discipline, I would encourage, but

Caleb Roth

I think we should pivot and actually just focus on that discipline. Yeah. Can you give us a 32nd story about setting something on fire?

Kyle Horne

Oh, yeah. So you know, it's playing in the woods. Of course, what do you do? Let's, let's light things on fire and put them out. And so, you know, we were doing okay, for a little while. And then at some point, the fire got too big. And then, you know, we're like, Okay, let's try and put it out with this pile of things. Well, that pile of things was straw. And so that, that didn't smother that just made it bigger. And so we sprinted, we saw that we had the fire and this the woods was out of our control. So he spread into someone's house and got a bucket of water. By the time we got back. The fire was well beyond a bucket. And so had to call the fire department and that area of woods was charred in my childhood, for a while as a as a sign as a memory of our mistake. But we didn't get into much trouble. But yeah, you know, it's a good lesson. Don't set things on fire that you can't put out. I think setting

Matthew Osborn

stuff on fire as a kid is sort of like a rite of passage. Some of the best memories I had with my friend. We're setting stuff on fire out in the backyard, throwing things into it to see what would happen. All those little science experiments you can call them. I think it's I really do. I think like setting stuff on fire is somewhat of a rite of passage. Some of the best memories come from that. It's also dangerous. But what makes it fun right

David Chung

from my house down. When I was a kid. I purposefully like

Matthew Osborn

you're starting fires for fun. Are you like accidentally?

Caleb Roth

It was it was an insurance play?

David Chung

Yeah, exactly. No, it was I was playing with Legos, I grew up playing Legos. You know, after school, similar to what Kyle was saying, like, I feel like there was way less homework back in the day. And so I finished my homework real quick, or maybe not even do it at all. But I would just start playing with Legos after school and build these like structures. And then around the Fourth of July, we got a bunch of firecrackers and a bunch of fireworks. And so I started like putting these firecrackers and fireworks inside these Lego structures and like blowing them up in my room. And so one point like it actually caught the carpet on fire and I had to put it out and the whole house smelled my mom came in she was like, so disappointed. And she was like, Hey, David, if you're gonna play with fire, do it in the garage, not in your room. And so yeah, I proceeded to blow more Legos in the garage. But yeah, playing with fire.

Kyle Horne

I love that she gave you freedom to just push it to the garage. That's a good second parenting move.

David Chung

Yeah, because for me, I think she knew that I play with fire regardless, and so might as well be under her supervision as opposed to, you know, just somewhere random racket burn half a forest down.

Caleb Roth

Well, for more parenting tips and arson tips, Follow Follow our podcasts as new content to you, Kyle, one of the things I hear about with athletes especially is they get to the highest level they're going to play at whether that's high school, college, maybe even, you know, some sort of professional career. And when that finally calms down, or there's no future in that, I often hear that there's sort of a big dopamine crash and a purpose crash where everything they thought they were going to be doing sort of, you know, falls apart and they become directionless. So did that happen for you? And what did you do to sort of fill that void? Yeah,

Kyle Horne

I would say that that's true. That's true that because, you know, if you play high school football, that's true. And I think even more college when you play college sports, you know, and specifically on the division one level I think even more they control every aspect of your life. You know, your you got times where you're where you're eating, you got film, you got lifting practice, you got games, you got film, the film, you know, you got further meetings and analysis. There's just there's so much that you really don't have a say over and then you have the the regular, you know, commitments of just a college student. Right, that's already tough. And so when that ends You know, you stop, you kind of lose the muscle of being able to decide what am I going to do when I have four hours of free time? You really don't have that ever. And I remember just coveting, you know, at some points like, Okay, I've got an hour from 115 to 15. That's crazy. I think I can get a nap it you know, there's just like you long for just spots where you don't have a commitment. And so I think the freedom you experience after that is, is good. But there's also this sense of like, well, what am I? What am I supposed to? How do I decide what to do? And I know a lot of athletes, that can be very difficult for them. They don't they don't know what to do with their life. After that.

Caleb Roth

We discussed a bit of your kind of post college days, right before we kind of kick this off formally. But you you mentioned you joined a desert community called the sky gypsies. Dig into that just a little bit. What was that? What drove you to it? And how long were you there?

Kyle Horne

Yeah, you know, I think this ties into what we were just talking about, I longed for freedom, and just trying stuff out. And you know, a lot of my friends probably made the wiser choices and started doing internships and I'm jumping in with companies and, and did really well. And I was just kind of curious, you know, what would happen if I didn't have any debt? So I thought, Man, can I can I just explore the world a little bit and, and just try stuff? You know, I was aware that it was probably a unique time in my life to, to try different things. And if I fail, if it doesn't work out, you know, you're 22 you're 23, who cares? And so, yeah, I, I lived with this group, the sky gypsies, run by John McAfee of McAfee virus scans. And as you know, if you can imagine a three wheeled motorcycle with wings, these people would fly around the desert and camp out and, and come back. And so I just sent him a message, Hey, can I come and work in your coffee shop and, you know, learn from you guys and hang out in the desert? And they said, Sure, and so lived out there for a little while. And, you know, in that time period, yeah, just kind of start kicked off a time of exploration. You know, hitchhiking, wandering around, lived in Europe for a while, you know, I had hitchhiked from California to Florida. Did a little traveling documentary for PBS kind of just took this path of of exploration and just to see what would happen

David Chung

while you were traveling. How did you sustain yourself? I can't imagine you know, making coffee for a group called the sky gypsies, you know, makes much money. Yeah,

Kyle Horne

you know, I think I think he just learned to spend as little as possible. It's amazing what you know, how many calories you can find in like $1 or two burrito? And so I think just, you know, subway footlongs Walmart food, you just you just don't need much and I was okay, you know, not not eating my fill all the time. Buffets help, you know, but yeah, you just I had a few 1000 saved up. And I mean, you know, part of the cheat of it is a little bit is I knew if things got rough, I you know, I can I can find a way to get back home and, and I'd be okay, so I was I was okay. You know, living on the edge with with not much money and, and just trying to make it work. Have you guys have you guys gotten to travel out to the desert at all?

Matthew Osborn

Yeah, usually look all through. I

Caleb Roth

mean, Matthew, Matthew lives in the desert. I do. So I've been down to the desert in Utah, that desert in Arizona. I enjoy it. I really love spending time down in Tucson. So I have some familiarity with it, but not in terms of living there long term. Yeah, it's

Kyle Horne

kind of a magical there's something magic about it. You know, it's because in a sense, it's it's it's dead, right? There's not a lot of life there inherently. But as you kind of sit there, man, you see like the life that is they're super resilient. And, and yeah, there's just a beauty about it.

Matthew Osborn

Absolutely. Uh, we one of our first trips when we got our trailer or RV before we traveled around it for a while is we it's just the closest thing to our house in Colorado that we could go to and Boondocks, we went out into the middle of the desert over the sand dunes in Colorado and just camped out with our family. And it was the kids were really, really young then and so just the kids would play in the sand outside the trailer. But you're right there was something kind of refreshing about like being the only ones out there. It's just kind of a desert around you. There's nothing else there's no trees, animals, you're just kind of out there. The stars are beautiful whenever you're in a place like that. And it's just, I don't know it is weirdly refreshing more than you think it would be to be in the middle of the desert when you've got nothing else to kind of do focus on it and just be present there.

Kyle Horne

Right? Yeah, there it is. It is special and it's amazing and quiet, too. I don't know if you noticed that but it was one of the few places where if like if you just quiet It means you don't hear trees rustling in the wind, you don't hear leaves. It's just dead silence is almost like this deafening sound of silence that I found was, was pretty interesting.

Caleb Roth

I've always found there's an eerie beauty to it. Because you're in an area that is primarily deaf, there's, there's very little life in the desert. Of course, once you know what to look for, you can find it. But even when I play golf out there, it's beautiful. And the golf always feels a little bit unnatural, because grass doesn't grow out there. So to actually put fairways and greens and tee boxes, sort of interrupts the beauty of the desert. And then it's one of the other unsettling pieces is there's a lot that can kill you. There's rattlesnakes, scorpions, all kinds of critters that we don't have here in Indiana, Indiana, pretty safe. I don't think there's any poisonous snakes to worry about. And so it's just a different mentality when you're down there going. This is not my habitat, I should be a little more cautious. Yeah.

David Chung

Hey, Kyle. So you mentioned earlier that, you know, you went into gypsy mode, and you did all these, you know, different things. And at the end, you realize that freedom came from commitment and relationships, not just from, you know, changing your scenery, every few months, what habits sort of took place as you started to settle down? I'm assuming there are some things that you start started getting into the rhythm and cadence of doing once you start to stay more stationary and stay put, yeah,

Kyle Horne

yeah, I was. I remember. I was, I was living in Germany, and, and I was playing football out there. And I just, I found myself very, very dry. And I think, partly, I would have said that, and I still say I probably default to being an introvert. But I still found that I longed for community, I longed for friends to, you know, share life with me in a consistent way. And I found that a bit and there's some, there's some churches out there that I would, I would go to, but you know, still you there for six months, and you go somewhere else. And I would travel around and you go back there for six months for another season. And, and I, I moved to St. Louis, and I think a habit that, you know, it's it sounds very normal and plain. But for me, a revolutionary habit was just being somewhere and committing to a group of people. And so for me, I found that in, you know, the church that I was attending, there's just something about saying, hey, I'll see you next week. I'll, I'll see you at Bible study on Wednesday, hey, let's let's scrap coffee, something about having people in place, you know, sounds very, you know, plain and normal to us now. But to me, that that was mind blown. Like, wait, you just you just commit to people and you commit to a place and a group and you just go to the same job every day, I found that, you know, so refreshing and so delightful. Just to commit and so that that, you know, in itself was its own habit that was difficult for me to to pursue because that you still get that itch of wanting to do something different. What's the next adventure but yeah, commitment itself has its own discipline and habit that that was new to me, Matthew,

Caleb Roth

you're gonna bring up the Jocko willing quote at this point, which Jocko willing, quote, discipline equals freedom. Oh, the

Matthew Osborn

discipline equals freedom in the title of his book. Yeah, no, I think that's yeah, that's, that's really cool that you've kind of found that that's something that Jordan Peterson another guy also always focuses on all the time is that a lot of times fulfillment isn't ever found in these momentary things of pleasure or happiness, but it's found in commitment to something greater than yourself. And when you're committed and actually responsible for something that's normally find the most fulfillment. So like you said, you're bouncing around all over the place, you'll have little bits of joy here and there, and you'll be happy for moments. But the long term just deep filament, I think really comes from, like you've said, committing to a group of people to a person to a family and then taking responsibility and having responsibility put on you to where it's something where you're not just looking after yourself, but you have responsibility for others and the well being of others, I think really does lead to criminal you said the most long term fulfillment. So it's really cool that you you've stumbled upon that doing both of those and kind of seeing the difference there.

Kyle Horne

Yeah, that's well, that's well said Matthew and someone else's articulated as freedom and boundaries, right. There's something about you know, boundaries and structure that you know, they would say gives room for for good things to run wild. You know, when there are no boundaries when there are when there is no structure. I think a lot of you Well made me included, you know, don't don't do as well. And so there's something about just saying, Hey, this is my space. These are my people. It really, I think encourages thriving for for humans,

Caleb Roth

I think there's there's two very core pieces to freedom we've talked about a little bit before, but there's freedom from which I think is what most of us start off with. I don't want to have to go and answer to a boss, I want financial freedom, I want the ability to travel. And then there's freedom to and so it's not just I don't want to be stuck in an oppressive nine to five job, right? I want freedom from that. But then you start asking the bigger questions is all right, what is this freedom for? And what can I do with this? And that's that's a really opens up I think, for most people, rather than I'm just running away from slavery. Well, you know, however you view that to freedom. And then the bigger questions go and I think you hit on it in the in the intro, was you were sort of feeling directionless. When you were out with the gypsies, it's like, hey, the world's my oyster. But where's my home? Where do I settle in? Where do I kind of find that fulfillment with other people? And it sounds like you, you made some decisions and sort of settled in along those lines. Let's flash forward to your current life today. So you mentioned you have three kids plus one on the way. So congrats. I think assuming that was all plans, and then you also run three businesses. And you're part time pastor, one of the times that came down, we got to go see you preach, which was quite a treat. So why don't you fill us in a little bit of what your life looks like today, and just give us an overall glimpse of those three businesses?

Kyle Horne

Yeah, three businesses. One is our book company, we this is this is probably your fault. Caleb, that family is involved in this. But we were started out working mainly with college bookstores, and we buy older textbooks and, and resell them in the marketplace, or we sell in the wholesalers and so that we have a warehouse that we spent a lot of time in I love my kids love the they love the book warehouse and second business, we have an eye clinic, wife said eye doctor and and she's working for a private practice and at some point, and we said hey, what if we just start our own, build our own culture? You know, build our own space. And so that started in 2020. We thought, Hey, you're the eyes perfect. 2020. And then they're like, Hey, why don't you guys stop working and shut down for a while, but we made it, we made it through that. And then we have a shop equipment company is our third business. We work with new car dealerships. They all kind of use the same things floor soap, hand cleaner, parts, washer, solvent parts, washing machines, and, and we come in and say, hey, well provide all those things, and on a kind of monthly, or yearly contract basis, and normalize the invoice and make it easy on them. So, you know, three, not super related industries. But work,

David Chung

Kyle, that that's really surprising that you have three businesses in, you know, seemingly unrelated industries. How do you keep track of everything that's going on? And all those different businesses?

Kyle Horne

Yeah, you know, I don't know that. I am doing well. But I think there's a few things that that have worked for us, I have to keep things siloed. So you know, I have separate email inboxes separate slacks, I try and keep the, if I can keep the world separate. I don't know if you guys remember, show quantum leap. But this is kind of a 90 show and the Hercules Xena Warrior era. But every day this guy wakes up and he's in someone's body. And it can be like, you know, a 1820s made in Britain or could be, you know, a construction worker 1940s New York and he wakes up he has to figure out what are the problems? What do I have to solve? I kind of feel like that I wake up and you know, I go to the warehouse since okay, there's the zone set of problems. And these employees, they have no idea down the road about these other 10 employees at the eye clinic and what they're going through and they're all kind of separate, separate worlds. And so I keep them separate. But then, you know, I found having some consistent lines like I have one bookkeeper that runs across the mall and one CPA and so that that helps keep it together. And yeah, a few a few kind of software tools that that help keep them separate for me. It's

Caleb Roth

definitely a lot to keep track of it's that's admirable and also stressful all at the same time. When we did the pre call and we kind of were kicking around some of the habits that you carry, especially knowing with the three kids and one on the way and the three businesses. I thought we'd kind of center around time management or productivity or efficiency and the most of the skill As you were throwing out really related to health, so you mentioned a little bit of sleep. And then you mentioned the one we're going to really dig into which is sprinting, which as soon as you said that, I said, Yes, let's talk about that, because that is so different than most of the traditional health information that you're hearing. So, obviously, time management is important. He talked about bucketing everything out. Why do you think health is the most important thing for you are the most leveraged thing that you can do? And then we'll kind of dig into some of those specific habits.

Kyle Horne

Yeah, well, we, you know, it's interesting, we often say like, we talk about our mind or body as separate things. And there's a sense in which that's true. We all we all understand that. But I think sometimes we forget that our our mind is in our brain, and our brain is in our body, and how the health of our bodies can just going to affect how we think and work and the health of our brain and how that affects how you interact with people. I think it affects how you work, how you relate to your family. And so I found that pursuing health is something that has that leverages everything else, I'm not saying it's the meaning of life, but I think there's something really powerful about caring for your caring for your body in a way that that that does affect the other the other parts of your life. And yeah, and you mentioned sprinting, for me, you know, that kind of that exercise is a big is a big part of that for me. Yeah,

Caleb Roth

I love the aspect of going upstream. If you take care of your mind, and you know, you can eat well and make sure your brain has the right energy to perform your tasks. But if you kind of let the vehicle or the body sort of deteriorate, then you're you can only think so well. And your brain can only function so well. So I love that concept of going upstream. Of course, having some natural intelligence is good. And working on some brain habits is phenomenal as well. But I do love the aspects of the body. So let's hone in on sprinting. Where did that specific habit come from? And why do you think it's one of the most leverage things that you can do?

Kyle Horne

Yeah, yeah, it's such a fascinating topic. I think because it's not it's not talked about very often as a an outlet for people we hear a lot about, you know, your three K's your five K's your marathons, your Iron Man's sprinting isn't often push. But yeah, I, I like to make the argument that it's, I think it's the best thing you can do for your body. For me, it just came from it was something I enjoyed, you know, I never really enjoyed distance work or distance running. And a lot of people do respect that. I just, I just didn't enjoy it. And so it was something that I wanted to, you know, continue to pursue. And so I, you know, continued to just kind of keep that skill after, after football and, you know, kind of stayed competing in different different sprint events and, and still still compete in those. But yeah, you know, the, the argument, I think, for sprinting is it's unique, its unique, and what it can do for the body. You know, I think one way to think about it is, if you look at a pro athlete, in any sport, you can start to see what that exercise will do for you, because this is what they do, you know, 4060 hours a week. So, you know, if you look at a professional swimmer, while swimming, a lot is going to push you towards that. You look at a pro crossfitter that's where you know, your body's going to start to navigate towards. And, you know, and I think if you look at the marathoner, that's, you know, what your body's gonna push towards, and if you look at a sprinter, those guys look different. And, and that's where your body starts to navigate towards. And for me, I it's not, it's not an aesthetic thing. I found that. And the research will tell you, there's nothing more taxing for the body than a sprint, just physiologically, there's, there's really no debate about it. An all out sprint is the most taxing thing on your body. And, and because of that, it has a unique, it creates a unique response from the body. So you're

Caleb Roth

before Not really but so are you just going out and sprinting as fast as you can? Are you doing intervals like what what does this look like? And how often are you doing it? Let's just kind of set the stage before we get into some of the science here.

Kyle Horne

Yeah, yeah. So kind of practical look, most people, especially adults, you can't it's difficult to sprint more than two, three times a week, because it is so taxing and it does require multiple days for a lot of people. And so, I'd say for most people, you know, one to three days. We pushing that two to three day range with good rest is, is good to see, yes, this is an all out sprint. So 95 to 100% is is what you're going to push towards, you know, for most people very short 20 to 30 meters for a start, or kind of a build up into a 10 meter all out segment isn't is another kind of high leverage movement. And you'll find, you know, as many of my distance friends when they come come around with me, very trained people, but if you sprint, you'll find that it's, it's just a different movement, and they're often very sore and very tired for multiple days, just from a few seconds of, of sprinting, just a little bit of exposure, you know, can really do some interesting things to the body.

Caleb Roth

So I'm aware of Wolff's law, which applies more to bones, but it's the concept of if, if you stress something, it will grow or you'll have gains, I'm assuming something similar plays a role here in the sprinting world. Yeah,

Kyle Horne

right. So, you know, if you look at, if you look at the forces that are applied in the body, and you can redirect me here, if you want, but now we what we can do is we can we can put ForcePlates, under treadmills, and so we can track what are the forces that are applied in each step of these have anybody. But we've tested most elite sprinters, and what you'll find is for elite sprinters, they're putting five to six times their body weight in each in each step, that's the amount of Newtons that hit. And so the stress that that comes into your body, from those from those hits, in a short amount of times each step for you know, an average person is going to, they're going to be on the ground for probably point one 2.14 seconds, you know, so just a 10th of a second that when you're striking that ground, and in that little strike, we're getting, you know, five to six times your body weight for elite guys, probably, you know, three to four for the rest of us. And so the shock to the body is so great, you'll you might notice when you watch a Olympic sprinters, you'll see like Usain Bolt, and it looks like he's pulling away towards the end of the race, the last 30 meters of the race. But the reality is, is they're all slowing down. It's just that Usain Bolt is slowing down less. So the human body cannot sprint, and hold speed longer than six or seven seconds, just because of the way our, our ATP systems work or anaerobic systems, everyone slows down even the elite guys. And so because it's just so taxing, and, and so bull is great. And the great sprinters just slow down less than the other guys, but it's inevitable.

David Chung

Is that something that you can improve over time that you know, the time that you can sprint? Does that increase? With practice?

Kyle Horne

It definitely does. Yeah, so for a lot of it improves, partly because you can hold, you know, force outputs longer. But another part of it is if you run faster kind of counter intuitively, it takes you longer to get there. So for example, for a kid, they're going to reach top speed around, you know, 20 yards or less, you know, and so from there, they're going to start to slow down and once you hit top speed, they're gonna they're gonna be slowing down at, you know, 3040 yards, even though it doesn't seem like it. But if you track the two meter intervals, you can you can see it and so you can improve that by getting faster because it takes you longer to get to top speed. But yeah, and then just kind of improving form improving mechanics is gonna allow you to keep high force outputs for long periods of time.

David Chung

You mentioned that it's there's nothing more taxing than sprinting. You know, I think about sprinting and I'm just thinking, at least personally, I'm just thinking about my knees. I'm like, Man, that sounds really tough on your knees. Are there any negative side effects from sprinting? Or maybe even sprinting incorrectly?

Kyle Horne

Yeah, it is. It is a higher, I think the negatives, you know, it's probably a higher risk of hamstring injury. But I would say for a lot of people, you know, the sprinters that I know, you know, I'm in the kind of the Masters sprinting community and you know, we're adjacent to kind of the the distance people that compete at the same meets. A lot of the injuries that I see are from overuse injuries, from distance running. And so you think about, you know, running a mile running two miles, five miles, you're the contacts, the ground contacts you're hitting, are, you know, just relentless there over and over and over. Whereas a sprint, you're saying, Hey, I'm gonna run 20 steps and rest for you know, get max rest and wait four minutes until I can run fully again, and it's just not a lot of the the forces are Right. But the the impact or the repetitive impact is, is much less. And so I'd say it's, it's less risky, but I'm biased. So interesting.

David Chung

So is there any like sort of beef when you go to these meats where the sprinters are like looking down at the long distance guys being like, oh, that's an inferior sport. And the long distance guys are looking at the sprinters and being like, Oh, you only have to run 20 steps. Right? Yeah,

Kyle Horne

I think maybe early on. But now, for us old guys, I go to these masters meets where you compete against people in your in your age group. It's it's one big community. And it's really fascinating to see people that, you know, they kind of have on their calendar. Hey, we got national masters Championships coming up, I got this regional meet coming up. Everybody shows up. And you've, you know, you see these people at different meats. And you know, there's really no time to have beef when you're 45. And running. Running sprints is just it's good to see other people. But there's definitely yeah, they're definitely different worlds. For sure.

Matthew Osborn

There's this stat that I've seen thrown around. I'm sure you've heard about this stat before. I'm not sure if it's made up or not. But the status that I think it's 95% of people after the age of 30, will never all out sprint to get in their life. Have you ever heard that stat before?

Kyle Horne

I've not heard that one. But that sounds that sounds consistent. It

Matthew Osborn

sounds it seems crazy. To me, that would be actually true, I can't find a verifiable place I've looked before to see if it's like a scientific study. But it's kind of a widely accepted thing, it looks like that most people will never all out sprint again, after they turn 30 Or after they they're past the age of 30. Which is kind of insane to me how like you said, there's so many health benefits from doing something like that. And it pushes your body so much physically. And most people will most likely never do that again, once they get to 30, which isn't even that old, all things considered. And so it's crazy to me that something as simple as that, that doesn't even take that much time. And it's pretty easy, relatively speaking to do timewise. Like you said, it doesn't take it's not like doing a 10 mile run where you've got to commit to hours or an hour of time or something like that, that you can be done in a short period of time. And most people will never do it again in their lives. It's just just crazy to think about. Yeah,

Kyle Horne

no, you're you're right. It is it is strange. And I guess part of it is we don't have a reason to but unless you're going to catch your kid down the road on a bike or you're you're running from someone else they're running to say someone else, you know, often find a reason to go into all out sprint, but when you need it, you need it. And you know, that's that's one reason I have such a high view of it. You know, have you heard of, of Peter T as model for healthspan? Have you guys heard of that? Yeah. Would you say Matt?

Matthew Osborn

I said I know Peter or TIA not familiar necessarily with what you were talking about the road there? What was it? Yeah.

Kyle Horne

Well, so he he kind of you guys can redirect me. But he he makes this argument that what you want is not really lifespan. That is good. He says that you want healthspan. So you want the ability to function at a high level for longer. So what do you do to keep keep healthspan? Well, he makes this argument in favor of, of sprinting and explosive movement. What he says is, you know, if you if you track longevity, people that that can move well, when they're older, what is happening? It's like, well, how do you lose it? Well, at first you can sprint, when you start sprinting or 3030, then soon you can only jog because you don't go back the other way. And then what happens? Well, I you stopped jogging, and then all you can do is walk and then well walking normally and with with spunk is difficult. And so you kind of you move to shuffling. And then once you shuffle, it's a really difficult path. And soon you fall and you break your hip, and things don't go well. And so his argument is that the best way to to keep healthspan just from a physical exercise perspective, is to keep the extremes. And so he would argue that if you want to be able to jog for a long time, you know older in your age, you have to hold on to sprinting because you have nothing else to protect you once you lose sprinting. Jogging is your final Bastion is as if you want to be able to you know walk and and have be able to move around and cut is like we got to be able to jump high or to jump with high effort. And so when once you lose the ability to jump and to sprint, and to do the extremes, your abilities can only condense either. You start moving to jogging to walking and so the way to keep the things in the middle is to hold the extremes on the edges. That's his argument and You know, I think I agree with it. I remember the one of the first meats I went to the Masters national championships. And I started seeing people that do this, you know, for long periods of time in their life that committed decades to just showing up to meet and, and running or sprinting. And I was blown away. Personally, I was I was in my early 30s. But I was like that guy. I started trying guess I saw that I was wrong about ages repeal, because I started seeing people and then you can see their age group on their, on their little, you know, banner or their chest number. And I started seeing that I was wrong about ages, over and over. And see women are like, Okay, I think she's 33. But now she's 53. Alright, see, you know, older people, I saw a guy that, I guess 70 plus year old, long jumping, like running into a long jump pit and jumping into the pit. And he was he was in his 70s he didn't look 70 Because he was jumping, I saw, you know, these 4050 year old sprinters that just, you know, look like the peak of health. And so for me, I was like, Okay, there's something beyond me just enjoying it. There's something physiologically there and, and you guys can can look this up. But there's, there's, you know, all types of studies. Now there's there was a meta analysis recently that showed that sprinting that compared fat loss from sprinting, verse intervals, and sprinting bursts, steady state cardio, and they found that I think it was 42% more fat loss for sprinting than intervals. And it was it was I think it was about 90% more fat loss for sprinting versus a state cardio with

David Chung

Kyle's Sorry to interrupt, but I've got a silly question. So you're talking about sprinting? And you know how quick it is like, what does a typical sprinting session look like? I'm just imagining a big field and you just sprint as quickly as you can like, three times? Is that what it looks like? Or? Yeah,

Kyle Horne

yeah, it's pretty simple, right? So you get to you gotta find your own warmup you find your own. Find what, what allows you to feel prepared to, to run and sprint. And I think you can do that in 1015 minutes. And then from there, you know, there's different ways you can do it Hill sprints, super safe way to do it very low injury risk. 2030 meters, run up the hill as fast you can do that for five reps, take a break, do it for five more reps, and you're done. You know, you can do less and say, yeah, really very short.

David Chung

And then that's, then that's very according to studies, more effective at fat loss, then interval training or just regular cardio. Yeah,

Kyle Horne

yeah, there's there's a ton of studies out there that say the same thing. I saw one recently that had 32nd, sprint bouts, I think it's a bit long. But they showed that just doing that two to three times a week, it was a total of like six, six to nine minutes of effort showed I think that was the one that showed 9% more fat loss and cardio, but the kicker was, is that it was 30 times less time spent doing it. And so if you have a family, you know, a longer run is gonna cost you more family time, a longer bike is gonna cost you more family time than a sprint session.

Caleb Roth

I mean, what I love, I love the efficiency element of that. And I love how you broken that out. It also occurs to me when you're sprinting and you don't really need equipment, I suppose you could do it barefoot, there's probably a whole underground world of barefoot runners or sprinters. But I would imagine a nice pair of tennis shoes and just whatever athletic gear that you have, versus trying to like i don't i don't really work out a lot. I play a lot of golf. I do run in bike, I did a triathlon this summer, just to kind of stay fresh and try to push myself, in part because I did read. I'm halfway through reading Peter t his book out live. But there's so much confusion when it comes to lifting weights, and there's hundreds of exercises you can do. And you can certainly hurt yourself if you don't do it properly. And so I just love the simplicity that is sprinting. You don't need a gym membership. You don't need a lot of equipment. So I'm intrigued. Let's put our readers maybe many of them are kind of in my world where I don't just go out and sprint or workout a lot. Where would I start? So let's kind of make this as practical as we can. What are the just kind of the base steps that would be required just to get this habit started?

Kyle Horne

Yeah, I think you're right. There is very minimal equipment required. You really don't need much but shoes. I would say if if you want to, you know go for it. I think it is worth spending 30 bucks and getting either spikes or cleats because it just resolves the question in your mind. Am I going to slip Am I going to you know, it's just, it's just more likely to do that when you have shoes on. But it's not expensive 30 bucks, cleat spikes, you can find them anywhere. And that gives you the surety to know that when I strike the ground, I can put everything I have into the ground. And so yeah, you find a field, you can use spikes, or cleats on a field spikes your cleats on a hill. And, or if you have a track, if you're lucky, you might have a just an open track from a high school, or a college that lets people run on it, that's gold, there's nothing better than that. Being able to use spikes on a track, I mean, are hard to beat. If you want to this is where you know, this is your own preference. If you want to track improvement, there's, there's really no way to do it other than timer. So I use what's called a free lap timer for a few 100 bucks, you can time your splits. And that enables you just to say, Hey, I got five sprints today, my best to meter split is 1.21. I want to get to 1.19 today, and that's all or I say I want to run to under 1.23. You know give you you can make games you can gamify it is super fun, because then all you're doing is you're just trying to beat your time. It's

Caleb Roth

like a wearable that you that you wear on your body, or do you have? Is it like sensors? Like how are you actually measuring the distance and the time?

Kyle Horne

Yeah, for free lap, you just put a little sensor around your waist, and then you set up beacons, you measure out a beacon on a track or on a field 10 meters apart, 20 whatever. And then as you run by it, it will, you know, click and then acknowledge that you've passed it. And then it sends the data to your phone or in the cloud. And, and that just enables you to not everybody's gonna do that. And that's me, I like data. I'm motivated by a 100th of a second. That's interesting to me. But I think just sprinting and getting out there is going to be the base level for most people. But if you'd like data, if you like, knowing Are you getting faster, that that's going to give that information. And for me, I know that if I'm faster, that's that's an immediate indicator that my body is more primed, healthier, you know, there's improvement there, I can run with my kids more, you know, there's that number matters to me.

David Chung

For you, Kyle, what have you found is the optimal recovery time for peak performance after a good spring session to another

Kyle Horne

Yeah, I I'll take two to three days, I often won't do more than two all out sprints in a week. And that, but you kind of because there's essentially there's a muscle fatigue, but there's also a central nervous system fatigue, that sprinting effects that long distance running doesn't affect and so even if your muscles are recovered, you know, your central nervous system might not be able to fire at the same output. And so part of the other reason why a timer is important is because you can see what your output is. But yeah, I think two to three days for most people's good starting out one to two times a week, you know, you can be done in 3045 minutes, incredible impact on your body, and just that that short amount of time interesting ly enough if you know if you talk to elite coaches, a lot of these guys when they sprint and they're they're running sub 10 Second 100 meter dashes they need they need two weeks before they can sprint again, because the effect on their body is is so great that it would it would endanger them to try to sprint before that. And so it's just a huge global impact. And then it's not you know, side note you get studies will tell you that you'd also get cardio with sprinting you can you sprint, you get the power effect, you also get cardio improvement, but it doesn't go the other way. You're not gonna get just by doing cardio, you don't get the power and the anaerobic and the you know, the muscle building that comes with sprinting.

David Chung

Kyle, from your perspective, how much of it is genetic versus again training for you know, good performance? Yeah,

Kyle Horne

I mean, there's no doubt if you've read, you know, the sports gene in you, you you can see that genetics plays a role. But it there's been muscle tissue, we talked about Gen X, what people are most often talking about is do you have fast twitch slow twitch fibers. And everybody kind of has a variety of mixture of that and they've done these analysis on even there's a study I saw on current NFL players where they, they do little, you know, non invasive biopsies to see their fast twitch slow twitch and they found that, you know, there's a lot of slow twitch guys in the NFL that just learn to be great. And, but regardless even if you are slow twitch You know, dominant, you can still improve your own body, you can still get faster at sprinting. And so maybe you're not going to be in the Olympics. But I think none of us are going to be in the Olympics right now. Right at at 40. We're just trying to optimize our own life. And so maybe your ceiling, in theory is lower than, you know, some other elite guy, but you can improve your own state. And we don't know where our ceiling is

Caleb Roth

one other practical question, Kyle, do you recommend running on grass? Or is pavement okay? If I've got like a neighborhood I could run in?

Kyle Horne

The recommendation for most people would be that pavement is okay in in doses. But for for, you know, two to three times a week, you're going to want to try to find grass or track because the the forces into submit are, you know, just a bit much. But it's not something you should never do. I do it sometimes. But I think as a pattern I would I would move towards grass or track. Yeah, that

Caleb Roth

makes sense in terms of preserving the joints. Do you also then lift weights and do cardio and do other things? Or is sprinting? The only thing that you do?

Kyle Horne

I do zero cardio? That's a little bit controversial. But I the most jogging I do will be sometimes if I run a lap before I sprint. And often I don't do that. I don't I'm not opposed to cardio. I just don't enjoy it. And my conviction is that I've got enough benefit from sprinting to that, you know, that's enough. For me on the cardio side. I don't I don't find myself winded, you know, playing with kids, playing with my kids and playing other sports. But also, you know, just matters what you enjoy. Some people love meditative distance running of cardio. And so no disrespect to that. But yeah, that's I don't do it. Oh, do I lift weights? Yeah, I do lift weights. I, yeah, I kind of default towards heavier lifts, if you can low rep, heavier lifts, whatever your capacity is. And for me, it's organized around, I want to lift in ways that make me faster. I don't do general, I don't do a lot of upper body. And I don't do just general lifting just to get bigger and stronger.

Caleb Roth

Well, I guess sort of bring that efficiency moment into into everything you're doing. So when you're out there sprinting and chasing hundreds of seconds, and pushing yourself sort of raising your ceiling? Do you find that that spills over into other aspects of your life as a dad husband? And as a business owner? I

Kyle Horne

do? I do. I mean, one, just the physiological effects, I just feel great. After a sprint session, and if I'm consistently sprinting, my baseline for just how I feel, I think is going to be higher. Yeah, I mean, family impact, I think is unique. Because one, you can bring your kids to it. If you go on a long run, it's hard to bring kids. And so this, Hey, come out and run with me. Plus, this just the research will tell you, it's just better for kids to sprint than it is for them to do any kind of Drudge work. So yeah, there's that. The I think I'm a data guy. I think it's gonna I like tracking it. And I like seeing improvement. And I think there's some crossover to business there of just thinking about like, what are my KPIs? What are the main things that I care about from business? What are the main times I'm looking for from my body? I think I think all that, you know, is, is going to have half crossover. But I yeah, I think just overall, my body's going to be healthier, my mind is gonna be healthier, and that's gonna affect everything else.

Caleb Roth

I think that's, that's phenomenal. So if somebody does want to get started, what's a what's a book or two or a website or somebody that you can follow? That's influential, like what's a good just sort of starting point for someone that says, Alright, I'm intrigued. I like the idea of how efficient this is. I want to try and maybe think about this habit for myself. How do they get started?

Kyle Horne

Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of great guys out there. There's a guy named Tony Haller, who he kind of developed this system called feed the cats. And he is a high school sprint coach. And he's kind of turned the track field upside down, because tracked it traditionally has been like, Hey, you got to run these. In order to get ready to sprint. You got to build your cardio base, and, you know, run a bunch of miles. And Tony has developed a simpler system where it's like, hey, what a cat's do what a lions do? They relax a lot. They rest a lot. And then they sprint and then they rest a lot and they sleep and they eat and then they sprint. And he does that with track athletes and and they've got a lot of great results where they they don't they have very minimal volume. He's a guy I would look up A guy named Dan path P F. A f f is, is, you know, probably our kind of our generations legendary track coach. And he's an Olympic guy that has a lot of great philosophy and practical application for for sprints. I always start with those two guys cool.

Caleb Roth

And we'll link to those in the show notes as well. So if you're, if you're listening along and need help tracking those down, just check the notes and they will be linked to those as we seek to wind this up. David, Matthew, any other questions related to that? Or is that is that kind of the last little bit we want to share here on Sprint team?

David Chung

You know, yesterday, yesterday morning, I went down to I live in a high rise I live on the 11th floor of high rise and I went down to the first floor to toss my recycling away. And I decided to take the stairs because elevator was busy. And I tried sprinting up the elevator, this prior to like missing your email or anything. I just wanted to try it. And I swear I could only get to floor five before I was just like absolutely winded. And I could barely walk after that now. I think that's just like difficult to do anyway, do you think that's going to give me the similar benefits of sprinting? Or am I just like totally off?

Kyle Horne

No, no, stadiums are great. It's similar, similar to heels, hills, and but they provide, you know, you can say hey, I'm gonna run five reps of three flights or whatever. And there's a great benefit to that. You can hop up those steps. And you know, plyometrics are a great thing to add in there. But no, you're right on. I think it's just it's a great, it's a great supplement to sprinting, for sure.

Caleb Roth

Willing, David, you have the added benefit of living at elevation in in Denver, of course. So you're 5000 feet above sea level versus you know, Kyle and I are probably six to 800 feet above sea level. So the lack of oxygen is going to benefit you that much more with whatever you're doing. Yeah,

Kyle Horne

absolutely. I probably be winded to David, that's impressive.

David Chung

I'm going to try again in a few days, see if I can make it to six. Yes. Yeah,

Kyle Horne

you should time yourself to see how fast can you get at five, five flights? You know, yeah,

David Chung

I wasn't timing myself. But I'll time it next time I do it. And I'll I'll send it to you guys. If they felt pretty fast. I felt a lot faster than waiting for the elevator. That's for sure.

Caleb Roth

Yeah. Well, David, you can work on flights of stairs, and I'll work on flights of beers. Next time we meet up and that will we'll see who gets more benefit out of it. Probably you might get more enjoyment, but you'll probably get more healthspan. Yeah, probably. Matthew, any any final thoughts or questions from you? Not

Matthew Osborn

really, I love the topic. I tried sprinting back when I was traveling in the RV because one of the only things I could do since I didn't have a gym. And running really wasn't an option back then because of this issue was having a shin splints, and I loved it. I don't know why I actually got out of the habit thinking about it as you're talking about it remembering I did like 60 days of sprinting to see kind of what what happened. And I loved the results. I love doing it. I loved how little time it took compared to spending two hours in the gym. But just with traveling and everything else I got out of the habit of it. I never really got back into habit right now I'm running a two mile loops every few days, just jogging. But I'm considering replacing that with sprinting, you've kind of you've kind of convinced me of the benefits of that. So I might get back into that. So it's been ly opening for me listening to that. And yeah, I want to get back into I wonder why I got out in the first place. So look good

Kyle Horne

halfway, if you want to try is intervals as well. And that's, you know, in your job. You can amp it up to 85%. And then take a longer, you know, a longer recovery jog. And there's some there's some great, great benefits to that as well. Yeah,

Matthew Osborn

that'd be great in between ground to kind of transition over or just get a little bit of a different different workout from the same two mile loop. Absolutely.

Caleb Roth

Well, I have I have five kids and I took my 10 year olds on a five mile bike ride to go to the coffee shop, because that's that's how you bribe bribe 10 year olds with caffeine, I guess. And on the way back, she was kind of thrown a fit. Let's call mom and you know, I don't I'm done. You know, she kind of was tapping out. So I love the elements of sprinting. At worst. You're, you know, 3040 50 feet away from your kids. And so they can be out there with you. If they want to quit at any point you're not you know, several miles from home. You're just right there in the park or the field. So that's intriguing to me as well. I'll be honest, I didn't you know, I love talking to you, Kyle. And I love picking your brain. When I knew we were going to talk about sprinting and I'm like, this one scares me because it sounds like hard work. But I'm like Matthew, I'm intrigued. I'm definitely going to look into it a little more. I'm like you were the metrics matter and the numbers matter. So I'll probably start with something simple like a wristwatch and I don't want to you know, throw a couple $100 down just to do something I may only do a few times but I'm intrigued and I'll probably be sharing some screenshots or something with you and you can laugh at my horrendously slow times right out of the gate.

Kyle Horne

Please, please send me send me your times. I would I would love to see Um, yeah. Before and after just how your time's progress if you, if you get a consistent distance or an area that you sprint, I would love to see how that progresses.

Caleb Roth

What is the most standard sprinting distance? Like if I was to go and just benchmark something, what is like the most common length?

Kyle Horne

Well, you know, for on an Olympic level, the 100 meter dash is is the classic, right, but, you know, a 40 yard dash. So you're gonna see that as a standardized time, everywhere. A, you know, I think even a 2020 yard I run a ton of 20s, which is super low, you know, super low volume. That's one of my favorite distances. And so, I'd say 2040 or 100, as long I would I would get some sprinting in before you do 100. Just to make sure you, you know, have some exposure to high speeds. But what's the

Matthew Osborn

NFL Combine? What is that, that there was sprint? You know, 4040

Kyle Horne

yard dash 40 yard dash. Okay,

Caleb Roth

so if it's good enough for NFL players, I think it should be good enough for us. I'm willing to throw down a gauntlet, David and Matthew, I think we should, you know, make sure we stretch and warm up first. So we don't, you know, blow a hammy. But I think we should go out this week and measure our 40 yard distance times. And we can do it with a phone or with a stopwatch. Like, it doesn't have to be you know, with with equipment, let's benchmark that and then give ourselves I don't know what's long enough, two weeks, four weeks, maybe a month and get get close to Christmas timeframe and see who has the most improvement, we can let listeners bet on it or something. But I'd be willing to throw, you know, dinner into the mix or something just as a challenge for us to be guinea pigs on sprinting, it's going to be

Matthew Osborn

100 fastest, or who has the better improvement on better improvements on their own time.

Caleb Roth

Yep, so we'd benchmark and then we'd have to say whether it's going to be a percentage of that or just a straight, you know, time. So we'll have to kind of formulate the rules here. But I would, I would say the bet would be go out benchmark, you know, run, run it three times in a row, take your average or your middle time or something. And then try and do that again, in a month or six weeks, so long enough to put a little training in and just see if if you know who gets the most gains? There.

Matthew Osborn

But what if I'm already at an elite level? And you know, like you said, it's like 75 stroke to settle, then you shouldn't weigh different than like, 100. If

Caleb Roth

you're at an elite level, you should just say no to the bat right now. That's

Kyle Horne

a great idea. I'm so excited to see what your times are. That's gonna be fun. Well, if

Caleb Roth

anybody wants to watch slightly middle aged, you know, software men push themselves, I think I think that's what we're going to be setting this up for. Is

Kyle Horne

that the name of your of your podcast, slightly middle aged off women?

Caleb Roth

It is yeah, actually. Well, thanks for coming for coming on. I think it's really fascinating in the health space, I know that you've got a lot of really research thing, the fact that you were mentioning peer reviewed studies in the middle of our conversation kind of speaks to your love of data, and how much you get into the weeds. So I really appreciate that. I love having you as a friend. I like picking your brain. And I look forward to the next random time I stopped through northwest Arkansas, and we can meet up for some really good coffee or food again. So we really appreciate your time. And we'll get this up soon. There'll be a link to the show notes. One last question for you, Kyle is if anybody's listening to the show, they're local. They want to come here you preach or learn more about business or compete in a sprint off. What's the best way for someone to track you down if you don't mind sharing that publicly?

Kyle Horne

Yeah, my, my email is the best way to contact me. It's Kyle. dot W dot horn. h o r n e@gmail.com. Yeah, I respond to every email I get. And if you're local we can we can come run.

Caleb Roth

Perfect. Well with that, thanks so much for coming on. And if you liked what you heard today, be sure to like and subscribe. Tell your friends we are we are fairly early in the process, but every little bit of sharing helps. And that is how we will leave it so thanks so much. Take care.

Kyle Horne

Thanks, guys.